What the h**l is going on?

[Joeaksa]

Get a real piece of pipe and put the conduit inside it. Keeps you from having this type of fun again!

[rick-l]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

If you have 230 volts you only need one neutral. If you have two 115 volt circuits you need two neutrals.

That is not true. With a split phase system, like here in the US, you only need one if the legs of the 115 are on different phases


EDIT: This is the only requirement which no one seems to follow:

(B) Dwelling Units. In dwelling units, a multiwire branch
circuit supplying more than one device or equipment on the
same yoke shall be provided with a means to disconnect
simultaneously all ungrounded conductors at the panelboard
where the branch circuit originated.

and no I am not an electrician.

[rick-l]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

After pulling the wires and inspecting them I found that the defective wire had been arcing to the conduit eventually burning itself out.

No Ground Fault Interrupter?

[carambola]

I'm curious to know how the new pull went.

[Baz]

So just to clarify......the issue was defective material ie: wire?

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Baz

So just to clarify......the issue was defective material ie: wire?

Coulda got nicked when it was first installed.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Did the wire burn its insulation off or burn copper?

I'm going to remember this thread and reverse the offending hot and ground next time I encounter this problem. Nothing better for a ground wire than one that is grounded. At least it won't arc.

Both, and it was taking the other hot w/ it.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by rick-l

That is not true. With a split phase system, like here in the US, you only need one if the legs of the 115 are on different phases


EDIT: This is the only requirement which no one seems to follow:



and no I am not an electrician.

That's correct and was option B,
option A, I pulled all the wires and ran 5 new ones.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by rick-l

No Ground Fault Interrupter?

When wire is run through a conduit like this the GFI is at the end of the circuit, there are only breakers which never tripped in the house panel

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Coulda got nicked when it was first installed.

That's the theory we came up w/

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by carambola

I'm curious to know how the new pull went.

It was actually pretty easy(electricians lube is a great invention), the hard part was digging up part of the driveway to inspect the conduit.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by rick-l

That is not true. With a split phase system, like here in the US, you only need one if the legs of the 115 are on different phases


EDIT: This is the only requirement which no one seems to follow:



and no I am not an electrician.

I don't think you understood my post. Two phases give you 230 volts, which needs only one neutral. This would be wired with three conductors, and these are typically required in a kitchen, i.e. 2x115 volt on one receptacle but on two opposed circuit breakers.

Two 115 V circuits requires two neutrals, and would be supplied with a pair of two conductor wires.

[rick-l]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

Two 115 V circuits requires two neutrals, and would be supplied with a pair of two conductor wires.

No

Say you have a workshop 50 feet away and you want a series of 115 receptacles down two walls where each wall requires a 20 amp breaker. You would put a two pole breaker in the box (supposed to at least), run red, black and white wires the 50 feet and then parallel the neutral to each wall. Even when each leg is drawing 20 amps (40 total) there will never be more than 20 in the neutral.

I expect with the price of copper you will see more of this.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by rick-l

No

Say you have a workshop 50 feet away and you want a series of 115 receptacles down two walls where each wall requires a 20 amp breaker. You would put a two pole breaker in the box (supposed to at least), run red, black and white wires the 50 feet and then parallel the neutral to each wall. Even when each leg is drawing 20 amps (40 total) there will never be more than 20 in the neutral.

I expect with the price of copper you will see more of this.

He meant if they were off the same buss. While you could do a single neutral off the same side of the panel for multiple circuits, you shouldn't.

[rick-l]

OK, I wasn't really sure.

I brought this up because I found this in a house and thought it was bogus until I read the NFPA book

[carambola]

not the same bus, the same yoke. the yoke is where the screws go for a device. say for instance that you have a dishwasher and a garbage disposal both pulling from the same receptacle, that would need separate neutrals. like i said earlier, if the loads are somewhat balanced you can operate two circuits with one neutral.

[rick-l]

Is the scenario outlined in post #53 legal?

[carambola]

yes it is.
but the point is moot.
bill has re-pulled the wires.
he has included two neutrals, one for each circuit.
if he wants to be sure he didn't do this again he can run a test.
it is called a megger and it tests the insulation of the wire.
i would start at 100v.

[rick-l]

So what was the point of post #56?

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by carambola

not the same bus, the same yoke. the yoke is where the screws go for a device. say for instance that you have a dishwasher and a garbage disposal both pulling from the same receptacle, that would need separate neutrals. like i said earlier, if the loads are somewhat balanced you can operate two circuits with one neutral.

This is confusing. A DW a GD will many times be on the same receptacle, but one would be switched. I could do that with one neutral and circuits from opposite busses. I could not do that with one, I don't believe.

The point is moot, but any misinformation is not. I'm not sure we have all agreed on what is what here.

The way I see it:
2 legs, one neutral (and we will assume in all cases, a ground): you could get 230v or 2 separate 120v circuits. In both cases, the power is coming from both sides of the panel.

2 legs, 2 neutrals: No shared neutral and the circuits can be on either leg or the same. If run in different sizes and on different breaker ratings, they must be kept separate. If the circuits are from the same buss, no 230v will measure.