Owning a modern P-car without a warranty?

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Several types of owners: Checkbook owners, DIY owners and a mixture of the two.

Checkbook owners must open theirs more often.

A generic Scan Tool is what, $100? And a set of tools?

If you want excitement and a reliable, low-maintenance car, your choices are limited. Find an example and be happier. Otherwise, increase maintenance income or perform more manual labor (improve the craft).

Sherwood

With all due respect Sherwood, it is obvious that you don't work on newer cars. For example, if you disconnect the radio on a BMW, it has to be re-registered via computer and it can only be done by a dealership. A simple scan tool is great for older cars.

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

With all due respect Sherwood, it is obvious that you don't work on newer cars. For example, if you disconnect the radio on a BMW, it has to be re-registered via computer and it can only be done by a dealership. A simple scan tool is great for older cars.

Have worked on new/prototype factory vehicles up until 2011 as part of training contracts. I'm familiar with the technologies.

As for bimmer radios, yeah, go ahead and default that step to the dealer or independent. Otherwise, don't touch the radio or live with the bimmer repair procedure.

Dealership techs aren't any brighter than techs of old, just better trained. Most electronics diagnosis is conducted in a "black box" mode. (Does it do this or that?) Most independents don't have access to the special tools at the factory level yet they manage fine.

If you don't want to work on the brakes, change the oil/filter/spark plugs, adj. the valves, replace a sensor, etc., that's between you and your repair shop. That includes early, non-ECU models as well as late 911s. I was just trying to help clarify the categories of car ownership who are w/o warranty. Same as home, RV or boat ownership and the ROW.

Sherwood

[billh1963]

I sold my 2006 997 after CPO was out. Would not buy any newer Porsche without one.

[onewhippedpuppy]

You can still DIY a lot of work on modern cars. I've done a ton of work on 996s, the only thing requiring a pro was resetting the airbag light after I replaced the faulty seatbelt latches. Even the Maserati, the only big item is the clutch that requires a dealership SD2/3 computer for proper alignment and calibration. Otherwise it's just a car.

[stealthn]

I have 3 don't be a panzy

[billh1963]

Originally Posted by stealthn

I have 3 don't be a panzy

Of your stable, only the Cayman would qualify as newer Porsche in this discussion! The Cayenne is not a boxer engine. It's classification as a Porsche is debatable in many circles as well.

[HardDrive]

Alright, I'm going in. I'm going to get the 'major' service done next week and have them fix a few things. It goes off CPO mid September.

I like this beast. If it goes to hell and ends up costing me a fortune, you will assuredly hear about it.

Thanks for all the input.

[gprsh924]

Eric already spelled it out earlier in the thread, but cars are always going to cost you money. You can drive newer cars and pay more up front and take greater depreciation hits. Or you can go older and budget for repairs. There's no such thing as a free lunch

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Have worked on new/prototype factory vehicles up until 2011 as part of training contracts. I'm familiar with the technologies.

As for bimmer radios, yeah, go ahead and default that step to the dealer or independent. Otherwise, don't touch the radio or live with the bimmer repair procedure.

Dealership techs aren't any brighter than techs of old, just better trained. Most electronics diagnosis is conducted in a "black box" mode. (Does it do this or that?) Most independents don't have access to the special tools at the factory level yet they manage fine.

If you don't want to work on the brakes, change the oil/filter/spark plugs, adj. the valves, replace a sensor, etc., that's between you and your repair shop. That includes early, non-ECU models as well as late 911s. I was just trying to help clarify the categories of car ownership who are w/o warranty. Same as home, RV or boat ownership and the ROW.

Sherwood

The real expensive repairs on a p-car cannot be done with a $100 scanner. Accessing the SRS system for instance, the security system, the central control module for the custom user settings for things like the how the car unlocks, and where the seats stay.

You can't even get the correct codes from a generic scanner for coil pack failures. You're going to need a PIWS or something even more expensive. Luxury bands have been like since the late 90's. Many of us remember how you had to have a Hammer to work on 911's of that era.

[aigel]

An extended warranty is nothing but an insurance policy. You have to ask yourself if you are going to self-insure or buy insurance.

My rule is that anything non-catastrophic is self-insured. The money I save over the years is applied if I have a "claim".

- No pet insurance.
- No extended warranties on electronics or appliances.
- Only collision on cars worth $10k or less.
- No CPO or extended warranties on cars.

Where do you put your limit for self-insurance? I would definitely NOT get into another CPO or buy more warranty. A 997 is a toy and not required for basic transportation - so if you can't pay for the repair right away, it won't kill you to have it sit for 6 months or start the R&R yourself to save some $$$.

You need insurance on your life (if you have a family to feed), your health, your house and liability insurance. That's about it IMHO.

G

[Cajundaddy]

If you are gonna lose sleep over it, just pony up for the warranty. Sleep is important.

Personally, I hate extended warranties. I have bought a few and always feel like I paid all the major repair bills up front... before they were needed. If the insurance guys like the odds enough to offer the warranty, I figure my odds are much better without it. If stuff breaks, I'll get it fixed. Right now I have 10 vehicles, no warranties.

[aigel]

I forgot to ask: Do you have track insurance?

Well, there is your answer!

G

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Scott R

The real expensive repairs on a p-car cannot be done with a $100 scanner. Accessing the SRS system for instance, the security system, the central control module for the custom user settings for things like the how the car unlocks, and where the seats stay.

You can't even get the correct codes from a generic scanner for coil pack failures. You're going to need a PIWS or something even more expensive. Luxury bands have been like since the late 90's. Many of us remember how you had to have a Hammer to work on 911's of that era.

That's not anything that should deter a DIY mechanic though. Our local quality Porsche indie charged me $70 to read the airbag codes, then I went home and replaced the buckles. I diagnosed a coil pack failure in about 5 minutes on my Boxster using my generic OBD reader, just move the coil pack and see if the generic misfire code follows it. It is more challenging than a 1970 911 with Webers, but I also don't miss no a/c, difficult cold starts, poor mpg, etc.

I think the sweet spot for vehicles was the Carrera era, as they had simple EFI systems and vehicle systems but offered excellent drivability and reliability. A good DIY mechanic can fix a 1980s to early 1990s vehicle in their driveway with simple tools.

[D_Pre_C8]

My 2 cents...I'm about to go off CPO with a 2006 C4S. I've looked into extended warranties mainly because over the years I've benefitted from having an extended warranty. My first lesson was a Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 with Cummins Turbo I-6, which required replacement of virtually every moving part in the front end (ball joints, stabilizer bars, tie rods) a little over 2 months after the factory warranty expired. I had purchased an extended warranty with the vehicle, so that coverage kicked in and it only cost me a day at the shop and $50 deductible ($1500 warranty, $6000 parts and labor bill Dodged, no pun intended). My C4S has a CPO warranty, which is good as the engine started to tick within weeks of picking it up at the dealer (used car, Canada spec.) Dealer diagnosed it as 'lifter noise' and changed 8 lifters on bank 2. No difference other than creating oil leaks. Over the spring and summer of 2011 it progressively got worse, getting louder when hot, oil consumption climbing to 1 quart every 300 mi or so. Drivers side exhaust got sootier and sootier. Finally fed up, I recorded the cacaphony of clanking with my digital camera, and uploaded a couple of clips on a public site on a Thursday nite, and sent the selling dealer the link. Obviously this had an effect, as the dealer contacted me on Friday (they had sent the link to Stuttgart) and arranged to give me a Cayenne on Monday and take the C4S back to look at the engine again. This time they borescoped and found cylinders 5 and 6 scored, then on further measurement with the engine apart, oval bores on 5 and 6. Abused engine by the first owner. Stuttgart sent a zero-time factory re-man engine and a little under 2 weeks later I had a totally renewed engine bay. (They told me that including shipping and labor, the replacement cost approached $25K CDN...about 40% of the car's cost) One big MF bullet dodged. The car has been absolutely sugar sweet since then...I drive it regularly and spiritedly...but I wait for the needle to reach operating temp before putting the hammer down.
So, big decision to make. Business is low, so really I shouldn't stick my neck out for a 2009 version...and the dealer won't CPO my car without me buying another (a sales gimmick to make me trade the 2006 is to have me bring a buyer in with me after telling him/her that the car can be extended CPO for two more years. What to do...hmmmm.

Good thread...enjoyed this one.

[Steve Carlton]

I had a friend buy a brand new Golf R and I really wanted her to get an extended warranty and she refused. She got coverage from her insurance company for like $70/year from GEICO (I believe). I remember in years past State Farm would sell it. Maybe the car has to be new to qualify, I dunno.

Call a few Porsche dealers and ask for the F&I guy- you might be surprised. I don't know if Porsche sells their own extended warranties or have a third party administer them for them. With 21K miles on your car, the rates might not be too bad. See how much you save with a $500 or $1,000 deductible. Independent companies that are reputable usually have lower rates or longer terms, such as Fidelity.

[techweenie]

I think one thing the Internet does well is support paranoia.

I was downsizing the fleet earlier this year and had a chance to buy a Boxster with 83000 miles on it. The selling dealer said "no warranty. none." I thought about it, chatted with some knowledgeable mechanics, had the computer read to see the engine history and bought.

As modern cars go, Porsches are among the most reliable. In 5000 miles, I've used no oil whatsoever and my big component failure so far was a brake light bulb.

[450knotOffice]

Excellent points brought up. Personally, I've had ONE extended warranty in my life, and that was on the first car I bought from a used car dealer back in 1982 - a 1980 VW Scirocco. I had a water pump fail suddenly and catastrphically while I was on the freeway. By the time I was able to pull over to the side, the damage to the aluminum head was done. I figured the warranty would repair it, but they wouldn't due to the the fine print in the contract that included basically every known primary cause of most downline major malfunctions. So, a water pump failure that caused my head to warp was not covered. I had the car flat bedded out of there and did most of the work myself - at great expense.

Never again will I fall for that trap.

To ease the OP's fears, my 996 has been supremely reliable over 138,000 miles and 12 years. Yes, there have been the occasional issues, but none of them have been out of the realm of normal wear and tear. Coil packs, plugs, Air/Oil separator, alternator, clutch (replaced the IMS with the LN Engineering version while in there. Old one was fine, btw), brake pads and disks, belts, etc. All stuff that ANY car will need eventually.