Considering a 911 - need advice

[speeder]

On the other hand, if that was just missing the green font-- nevermind.

[Steve Carlton]

I think he was being facetious. Be crazy to track a minty one.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

I think he was being facetious. Be crazy to track a minty one.

Actually I wasn't being facetious. While others are free to disagree, I don't own things to save for the next owner. A 911 cannot be driven anywhere near the limit on public streets and to attempt it is crazy. The track is where the cars shine imho, especially the older ones which are so visceral.

You don't have to turn it into a track beast, but unless you want to shine it and look at it, I think they beg to be driven hard. And the only safe place to do that is at the track.

[speeder]

A good 911 does not have to be driven anywhere near its performance limits to be enjoyed. 98% of Porsche owners will never push their car to the limit and in fact have no interest in doing so. They are fun cars to run to the store for a loaf of bread in.

Ferry Porsche once said, (when asked about the need for Porsche level performance and 150 mph top speed in a road car when the U.S. speed limit was 55 mph), that a good sports car should be fun to drive around the block. I agree 100%.

A very small number of owners, (including me), are interested in taking their car to the track to test their driving skills. It's not testing the car, unless you have a really deluded opinion of your skills.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Actually I wasn't being facetious. While others are free to disagree, I don't own things to save for the next owner. A 911 cannot be driven anywhere near the limit on public streets and to attempt it is crazy. The track is where the cars shine imho, especially the older ones which are so visceral.

You don't have to turn it into a track beast, but unless you want to shine it and look at it, I think they beg to be driven hard. And the only safe place to do that is at the track.

Most do not want to "shine it and look at it". They want to drive it. But not necessarily at the track. I read your post as serious, (not facetious), but think that you're all wrong regarding this car. It will get driven and enjoyed on the streets and highways.

[nostatic]

Well, people said I was wrong about tracking a 41K mile pristine '79 SC. And instead I went down the slippery slope for 4 extremely fun seasons/years of my life on the track. I'd do it over again in a heartbeat given the same set of circumstances. But everyone has different needs/desires. As they say, there's a butt for every seat.

[speeder]

But to be fair, IIRC, your decision to track that car and modify it heavily came after you hit some concrete blocks on the freeway with it and basically destroyed it from a *pristine original* standpoint. Wasn't it significantly damaged?

It seems to me that you were driving it on the street and wanting to preserve its condition before that happened. I could be wrong, it's happened before.

Surely you did not seek out the cleanest, low-mileage garage queen you could find in order to turn it into a track beast??

When it comes to sports car or MC ownership, there is a world of in-between "shining it and looking at it" and making a track beast. And it's where most of enthusiasts live.

[aigel]

Sounds like a great car Steve - Congrats!

You should check the date code on the tires. If they are over 6 years, I'd get them replaced. They will not be safe to run, especially at speed.

George

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by aigel

Sounds like a great car Steve - Congrats!

You should check the date code on the tires. If they are over 6 years, I'd get them replaced. They will not be safe to run, especially at speed.

George

Amen to that. My Carrera came with mint condition Bridgestones with great tread.....that were 12 years old. Those got changed out pretty quick.

Here's another great thread about basic maintenance. It's probably very relevant to your new car if it has spent much time sitting.

Long term & Commonly Neglected Maintenance

[recycled sixtie]

I have never raced/tracked my P car but I will choose a place when I can open her up out in the country or off ramp where there are no cars. I am by myself - wife can't stand the g
force. No ordinary car for this guy. I am blessed. Life does not get much better when I am behind the wheel. Don't do excessive on wet/snowy/icy roads though.

[rnln]

For the price range, and what you prefer, I would say 87-89. That's what I have too.

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Always liked the 911, and now seriously considering owning one. Let's say a budget of $20-30K. I'm no expert on this, so asking for some insight...

I get a car at work, so this would be a car used sparingly. I don't like the headlights of the 996, so I'm left with 993s and what, mid-80s Carreras? I like the coupe roofline, no cabrio, maybe a targa with a couple roofline? I want to get a low mile example that still has the near new feel to it. Questions:

- I like the look of the mid-80s Carreras. I suppose there are some super low mile examples out there (like that Guards Red turbo that was on What's My Car Worth. Is there any advantage to that generation 911 vs the 993. More visceral?

- what years did the 993 span? Any years to seek out or avoid? How about the predecessor?

Anybody know of a car that would fit my criteria? I still need to think of what other toy I could get... maybe an NSX, maybe a Lotus, maybe a first-class 2002tii, I dunno.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by speeder

A very small number of owners, (including me), are interested in taking their car to the track to test their driving skills. It's not testing the car, unless you have a really deluded opinion of your skills.

How true. But, to test your skills, as you put it, is a lot more enjoyable when the car is set up. I went to Willow once in my S on Dunlop street tires. I and Tyson drove the car and it was a handful. Not enjoyable at all in 8 and 9. The times I returned to Willow I was on Khumo track tires and drove well.

At least that's what they told me.

I have driven many miles of very spirited driving in the canyons and mountain roads. I'm glad I'm over that. I don't even play too much on the on ramps. Never know about the road until you've already had a lap.

Speeder and Ferry are right about going around the block.

As long as there is no traffic. Sports cars don't make traffic any better to bear.

[JavaBrewer]

Congrats on the '85 Carrera - the one from COS right? Have fun Steve!

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by speeder

When it comes to sports car or MC ownership, there is a world of in-between "shining it and looking at it" and making a track beast. And it's where most of enthusiasts live.

I didn't say make it a track beast, but rather to track it. I think that it is a mistake to drive it "enthusiastically" on public roads. Doing a track day lets you experience some degree of what the car is capable of. There are a whole bunch of "enthusiasts" who drive like arses on the street and on "canyon strafing" runs. As someone who rides a motorcycle though some of those canyons (at legal speeds), I find some of these drivers extremely dangerous.

On the street a P-car is good for the sound and the looks. If you want it for the performance, I think it needs to go to the track. Ymmv.

[Zeke]

When Mulholland got so famous that a photog was/is selling pics, it was time to stand down.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Zeke

But, to test your skills, as you put it, is a lot more enjoyable when the car is set up.

+1

I quit driving my cars on the track when I concluded that a street car is poorly set up for serious track use. Inadequate safety protection, poor engine and brake cooling, brake pads that weren't up to the task, etc. Not to mention an insurance policy that ceased to be in force the moment I ventured onto the track.

I drive my cars, and my bikes, on the street. They get driven enthusiastically but not irresponsibly.

JR

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by Zeke

I have driven many miles of very spirited driving in the canyons and mountain roads. I'm glad I'm over that. I don't even play too much on the on ramps. Never know about the road until you've already had a lap.

bear.

I love those spirited drives on public roads. Virgin roads. Unfamiliar roads. High speeds. A great meal waiting at the end.

A buddy of mine organizes these so called "Raids" from time to time. Just a handful of cars on a nightime raid to Paris or Amsterdam or Beaune etc....on a combination of B roads and fast roads. There's always good food involved, a beer or two, and some serious adult lunacy. A few years we took part in the infamous "Five laps around the Vatican" race. Even the police joined in with their Guzzis and Fiats. And then we all ended up in a bar that served tbe best Carbonara in all of Christendom.

The track is fun, but sometimes too hardcore and competitive. At least for me. And I've always hated suiting up in hot weather. To each his own.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Dottore

The track is fun, but sometimes too hardcore and competitive. At least for me. And I've always hated suiting up in hot weather. To each his own.

It is, but it's still the best place to let it all hang out. Most DE's don't require more than a long sleeve shirt and closed toe shoes. The rest is discretionary. Not that it's a bad idea. I want just as good of protection on the road, if possible and practical. I feel pretty good in the Boxster in that respect.

If I were starting all over, I would have built a spec Boxster. Marvelous little cars that handle very neutrally. 3.2 and lightened, they are fast.

But, I digress. The 911 is a superb car and I can see why everyone should have that experience just once. Some will get hooked.

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer

Congrats on the '85 Carrera - the one from COS right? Have fun Steve!

COS? This is the one that was on eBay in Colorado Springs. Apparently, it won a concourse (not sure how recently). It's pristine and I'll just enjoy it occasionally on the street. I'm looking for the sound and feel on the street, driven briskly. I'd probably bring the tail around on the track. More likely to put a bike on the track, as I've done a couple of times before. Just got an HP2 Sport...

[futuresoptions]

Originally Posted by Dottore

I love those spirited drives on public roads. Virgin roads. Unfamiliar roads. High speeds. A great meal waiting at the end.

A buddy of mine organizes these so called "Raids" from time to time. Just a handful of cars on a nightime raid to Paris or Amsterdam or Beaune etc....on a combination of B roads and fast roads. There's always good food involved, a beer or two, and some serious adult lunacy. A few years we took part in the infamous "Five laps around the Vatican" race. Even the police joined in with their Guzzis and Fiats. And then we all ended up in a bar that served tbe best Carbonara in all of Christendom.

The track is fun, but sometimes too hardcore and competitive. At least for me. And I've always hated suiting up in hot weather. To each his own.

Thanks! Now I am off to the kitchen to make some Carbonara...