Is there a safe way to buy car on the internet?

[widgeon13]

I'm looking for a relatively new car (2008-2009) and not interested in going to a dealer but yet want to get a fair buy and thinking about the internet. I really don't want to do this kind of purchase on ebay or Craigs List. Are there any sites that are more reliable than others as far as the quality of a transaction and the reliability of the car.

It would be very disappointing to spend mucho $$ and walk away with a lemon.

[s_wilwerding]

About the only way to do it would be to buy from a dealership. For example, I just bought my Cayenne a few months ago, and the only places I was willing to buy from over the Internet were Porsche dealerships. I ended up buying from a non-Porsche dealer, but that was after I drove there and looked at the car personally.

My $.02.

[kaisen]

What is your idea of "safe"? Right of refusal? Afraid you're getting scammed out of money? That they won't give you a title? That the car is misrepresented or they're trying to hide its condition? That they'll rob you at gunpoint?

What are you afraid of, specifically?

[kaisen]

And dealers are going to have 80% of the 2008-2010 vehicles in the marketplace. The vast majority of them are lease returns, fleet returns, and trade-ins. Relatively few private parties sell their own 3-4 year old cars.

[aigel]

Originally Posted by kaisen

The vast majority of them are lease returns, fleet returns, and trade-ins. Relatively few private parties sell their own 3-4 year old cars.

+1

Even if people don't have a lease return, they'd rather sell it to a dealer and not worry about a private party sale in excess of $20k. (They have the same worries as you do).

G

[widgeon13]

Originally Posted by kaisen

What is your idea of "safe"? Right of refusal? Afraid you're getting scammed out of money? That they won't give you a title? That the car is misrepresented or they're trying to hide its condition? That they'll rob you at gunpoint?

What are you afraid of, specifically?

Misrepresented and hidden conditions mostly. I'm not going to buy it off a street corner for cash.

I see some 08's on ebay at used car dealers with low mileage (50 to 60K) and question where they come from, are these cars lemons that the dealers don't want to be associated with?

Guess the best way is to follow s_wilwerding's practice and search dealers.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I personally prefer looking at anything before I buy it. Chalk it up to an inherent lack of trust for others, including dealerships. I have driven hours, on multiple occasions, to look at a car described as "immaculate" by a salesman only to find that it was an incredible POS.

With that said, and with the type of car that you are looking for, talk with Eric (kaisen). He has a lot of experience in this department and can likely find you a better deal than retail for minimum risk.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by widgeon13

Misrepresented and hidden conditions mostly. I'm not going to buy it off a street corner for cash.

I see some 08's on ebay at used car dealers with low mileage (50 to 60K) and question where they come from, are these cars lemons that the dealers don't want to be associated with?

Guess the best way is to follow s_wilwerding's practice and search dealers.

You're much more likely to find misrepresentation and hidden conditions in a private party sale. In most cases the sellers aren't trying to be deceptive, they just don't know better. Most people are pretty clueless when it comes to their cars, even enthusiast-oriented cars.

How many of YOU climb under your car regularly? Open the hood regularly? Inspect your tires regularly? Listen to the car as you drive, with the radio off?

Okay, if you do that with your car (unlikely), do you do that with your wife's car? Your kids' car?
Yet you're the ones that will represent it when you sell it....

No one here has bought more cars from private parties than I have. No one here has bought more cars from dealers and auctions than I have. They've all got their pitfalls.

You'd think/assume that salespeople at a dealership would have a little better idea of the condition of a car, yet have motivation to hide flaws from you. I think you give them too much credit. They've got dozens or hundreds of cars on their lot, they can't know everything about each of them. Dealers do their best to make each car 'nice' when it first appears on their lot. Some dealers go further than others. And no used car is perfect/flawless. Would you want to pay for one that was?

So there are a lot of potential pitfalls to navigate, from private party or dealers.

If you're doing it over the internet, photos and honest descriptions are the key. Dealers tend to have more photos of higher quality than most private parties. The level of detail in descriptions will vary, but getting either a private party owner or good salesperson on the phone to do a live walk-around will help you 'see' exactly what you ask them to 'show' you. Be very detailed. Neither a private party or dealer want you to show up and be disappointed. They'll be as descriptive as you demand them to be.

Getting a third-party inspection (PPI) can be a good idea, depending on what kind of 2008-2010 car you're looking at.

Inspecting it yourself before purchase is the only way you'll know for sure that it meets *your* criteria. Are you willing to pay up for the car that does?

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by widgeon13

I see some 08's on ebay at used car dealers with low mileage (50 to 60K) and question where they come from, are these cars lemons that the dealers don't want to be associated with?

True lemon-law buy-backs are disclosed, BY LAW. You can't buy a buy-back without signing a disclosure. However, if it was a buyback before the previous owner, they are the ones that signed the disclosure so you won't. Which means that the title will be branded 'lemon' in most states. A CarFax or Autocheck will uncover it 99% of the time.

Where do 50-60K mile 2008s come from? Lease returns, usually. 2008s would be coming off a 42-48 month lease. 12K miles per year would mean 45-50K miles, 15K miles per year would mean 55-60K miles. There are lots of 2008 lease returns with 30-40K miles as well.

Most leases are 36 month terms, so right now the 2009s (even some 2010s) are the largest supply. You know how large supply and stable demand leads to lower prices, right? So 2009s might be a better buy, and give you more to pick from.

Happy hunting

[widgeon13]

Thanks very much for the excellent insight.

Here is a car I could be interested in, what would be a very good price to close the sale? While I have some understanding of new car pricing I'm ignorant on used pricing. I believe this is an Audi dealer and it's approx 150 miles away. Springfield, MA. Could this be had for 34 to 35K? or less.

Used Used 2009 Audi A8 AUTO For Sale | Serving Springfield, MA, Hartford, East Hartford and Northampton

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by widgeon13

Thanks very much for the excellent insight.

Here is a car I could be interested in, what would be a very good price to close the sale? While I have some understanding of new car pricing I'm ignorant on used pricing. I believe this is an Audi dealer and it's approx 150 miles away. Springfield, MA. Could this be had for 34 to 35K? or less.

Used Used 2009 Audi A8 AUTO For Sale | Serving Springfield, MA, Hartford, East Hartford and Northampton

Want that exact car? I can buy it from them and sell it to you for $35,975 including all of my fees. You can pick it up tomorrow.

However, are you aware that it has had two accidents, one in 2009 and another in 2010? Or that it has giant curb rash under the front bumper? Or that all four wheels have significant curb rash? Or that it wears non-oem General summer-only tires?

That said, $35-36K is a steal, and under normal WHOLESALE for a 36K mile decent color '09 A8. They've had it more than 3 months, and the history isn't helping them....esp at a $40K asking price (why are dealers so dumb!?!)

[kaisen]

[widgeon13]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Want that exact car? I can buy it from them and sell it to you for $35,975 including all of my fees. You can pick it up tomorrow.

However, are you aware that it has had two accidents, one in 2009 and another in 2010? Or that it has giant curb rash under the front bumper? Or that all four wheels have significant curb rash? Or that it wears non-oem General summer-only tires?

That said, $35-36K is a steal, and under normal WHOLESALE for a 36K mile decent color '09 A8. They've had it more than 3 months, and the history isn't helping them....esp at a $40K asking price (why are dealers so dumb!?!)

Didn't know all that stuff and that's the kind of thing I want to avoid. Rather have higher mileage and older (2008) car. Certainly can't get that info from surfing but those are the things I am aware to look for if I see the car in person. My goal is to get an accident free car showing minimum wear and tear which obviously reflects good care by one owner or lessor. I have time and will spend money if the car is the right one.

Let me have a couple days (until early next week) and I'll PM you and we can discuss further. I am hoping to look at a car close by and will reserve any other comments until that has been accomplished.

I appreciate this assistance and detail, extremely helpful. Thanks very much.

[motion]

Eric, let me know when decent CLS's get to play money territory, say $15K. I would really love to have one to beat on. My wife's C class is not doing anything for my manliness!

[lonewolf]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Want that exact car? I can buy it from them and sell it to you for $35,975 including all of my fees. You can pick it up tomorrow.

However, are you aware that it has had two accidents, one in 2009 and another in 2010? Or that it has giant curb rash under the front bumper? Or that all four wheels have significant curb rash? Or that it wears non-oem General summer-only tires?

That said, $35-36K is a steal, and under normal WHOLESALE for a 36K mile decent color '09 A8. They've had it more than 3 months, and the history isn't helping them....esp at a $40K asking price (why are dealers so dumb!?!)

In 10 minutes Eric came back with your answers, That is impressive,certainly backs up what he says above.
Think Matts advice was right on. Let Eric find you the car you want.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by lonewolf

In 10 minutes Eric came back with your answers, That is impressive,certainly backs up what he says above.
Think Matts advice was right on. Let Eric find you the car you want.

He has access to information that we simply don't. I consider it cheating.

[BRPORSCHE]

I like to think of him as a magician. He can seemingly know/do things that I can't.

Magic I tell ya.

[unclebilly]

Dont deal with Kurt Keiper...

Kurt Keiper is Back in Snyder County | WNEP.com — Scranton / Wilkes-Barre / Hazleton

[kaisen]

Thanks guys, and no magic involved. Just experience and access to dealer-only websites.

[widgeon13]

I certainly have learned a few things today and hope I'm moving closer to getting the right reliable vehicle at a good price. I appreciate everyone's input, endorsements and patience.