Bolt action rifles

[legion]

Shhhh....Don't tell Jeff what Mossberg did to the lever-action.

[HardDrive]

What. The. Fuch. Is that piece of schit?

Seriously. Who would want a weapon like that?

Originally Posted by legion

Shhhh....Don't tell Jeff what Mossberg did to the lever-action.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by legion

Shhhh....Don't tell Jeff what Mossberg did to the lever-action.

Yeah, I've seen those. Today's sign of the coming apocalypse. Maybe that's what the Mayans foretold... As oddjob would say, "cheese and rice..." Who would buy such an abomination?

Originally Posted by aigel

Jeff,

I respect your traditionalist views and always enjoy reading your gun input, but that rifle advice, while logical, is so traditional, that it doesn't leave much to buy these days.

I know. Guilty as charged. I am a rather hopeless romantic/traditionalist when it comes to certain things. Old guns, old Porsches, old motorcycles. One cannot buy my "ideal car" anymore these days, either, so I putter around in a 40 year old 911. Not everyone's cup of tea, and I realize that. The original question, however, was what we prefer in bolt guns. Those are my preferences.

Originally Posted by aigel

Maybe it is because I hunt the warmer climates mainly, but I don't know anyone whose trigger froze. I do however know a lot of people - including myself - whose long range shooting improves greatly with a <3 lb trigger that breaks like glass ...

I actually had the trigger group freeze on a M700 in 7mm mag one day. We were elk hunting in the Cascades west of Yakima. It was raining for days, then the temps plummeted overnight. Many of us in camp had triggers and firing pins freeze.

This might sound kind of weird to hunters in dryer or warmer climates, but here we leave the rifles outside overnight, or any time we are back in camp. If we are camping with the vehicles (as opposed to having packed in) they get locked in a vehicle; if not, they are just under some sort of cover. Either way, definitely outside for the duration of the hunt. Condensation will wreak havoc with them if they are brought inside where they can warm up.

Oh, and as far as trigger pulls, I couldn't agree more. I'm kind of a "trigger snob", really. There is no reason to put up with a lousy trigger. The triggers on the rifles I describe will all easily be made to break at less than three pounds, with minimal creep and over travel. Just because they are rugged doesn't have to mean they are stiff and rough.

Originally Posted by aigel

I don't care how my "safety" works. I never count on it working - as you should with any gun safety, even the one that locks the pin. I always chamber a round as late as possible ...

Most of my hunting rifles and (revolvers) over the years have not even had mechanical "safeties". 19th century single shots, lever guns, muzzle loaders, single action revolvers. All depend on the operator being the "safety".

That said, it strikes me that I find myself far more interested in the other guys' safeties than my own. Realizing that, I understand the feeling is probably mutual. Yes, it should never come into play. I have never seen or heard of a safety actually saving the day. Probably more psychological than anything else.

I always have a round chambered at all times while hunting. I'm a "still hunter" - I get out and walk. Many of the animals I've come across and was lucky enough to bag would have spooked at the sound of an action being worked. Safeties can be loud enough in the still, quiet woods. As an aside, that's one thing I really like about exposed hammer guns - holding the trigger back, they can be cocked silently. As another aside, I would venture to guess my lifetime average range for shooting a big game animal stands at under 50, maybe even under 40 yards. Silence (and rarely, quickness) is mandatory.

Originally Posted by aigel

On the open sights you have a valid point - not a deal breaker for me however. There are a lot of things that can mess up your hunt - this is just one of them and it isn't terribly likely IMHO, if you buy a good scope with solid mounts / rings. I have beaten the hell out of my scoped rifle in nasty terrain and have yet to lose zero. Also, many hunts would be ruined anyways without a scope. I can't hit an animal past 150 yards with iron sights ... you'll probably tell me I don't practice enough.

Hell, I don't practice enough, and I shoot at least once a week.

There is a very high end scope laying in the bottom of a gully somewhere off of Sugarloaf Peak, above Leavenworth WA, if anyone wants to go look for it. I took it off my M70 .30-'06 and threw it over the edge of it one day about 30 years ago. It's aluminum, so I'm sure it's still in fine shape.

I had an absolutely beautiful buck jump up from his bed not 30-40 yards in front of me that day. The safety went forward as the rifle was shouldered, me thinking he's dead to rights. Nothing but gray - the scope had fogged internally. Must have had a leak or something. Anyway, that damn buck stood there until I almost had the clamp screws on the Weaver mounts loose. Almost. I think he was mocking me. Mere moments before he would have been mine, he jumped over the lip into the gully. Bastard. I bet the scope beat him to the bottom, though... I wish I would have saved the scope, though, as I found out later they would have fixed it for free. Oh well. Oh, and I did have the last laugh - I managed to find that guy about a week later.

I had an erector tube spring break inside another high end scope one day; this time, thankfully, at the range. It was on a bull barreled Ruger #1 in .220 Swift - hardly a combination that "punishes" a scope. I knew better by then, so this one got fixed for free. The point is, one just never knows. Hunt and shoot enough and it will happen, some day.

Anyhoo, these are all just personal preferences. Some borne of personal experience, some borne of the experience of others, and some just because I'm an opinionated old fart. These are my requirements, but not necessarily anyone else's. Rifles that meet them are everywhere. Granted, few brand new ones, but the world is awash in old Mauser 98's, Winchester M70's, and Springfield 03-A3's. Less than a grand will buy perfectly serviceable examples of either.

[vash]

i only have leupold scopes.

on my brandnew Weatherby .257 magnum..i had a failure. i had some older rifle sling that i LOVED. it was all leather, and had a tiny pocket that fit 3-4 extra rounds. cool, simple. it attached to the rifle normal enough. but instead of a buckle, it had a threaded stud. well, the threaded stud backed out and my rifle fell off my shoulder. i was on a steep shale face..man..watching my shiney new rifle "skate" down that slope broke my heart. it was like losing a single ski and watching it disappear. my brother below me pounced on it.

what happened to the rifle? well, it got scratched for sure. the scope took the brunt of it. a scope adjuster ring cap was crushed. and the tube was scratched to hell. i went back to camp and fired a round. i dont know where that bullet went. i had to rezero. i was suprised the scope got knocked off. i had great solid mounts too.

all is good again. the rifle is still a tack driver.

i vaguely remember dropping my 30.06 too..i was young and dumb and was essentially rock climbing with my rifle..to get to a forkie mule deer. dumb.

[9dreizig]

I shoot a 300 Wby in a Winchester Model 70 Sporter ,, it's a tack driver
Also have a 375 H&H in a Winchester Model 70 Classic
first one has a Leopold 3-10x and the second a Nikon 2x8,, the 375 has a quick disconnect mount on the scope with iron sights,, although it's a stainless gun I had it teflon coated (hate stainless) and the barrel was shortened to 20 inches ,, well balanced and relatively light for a 375.. it's the ultimate AK bear and moose gun.. , trigger pull down to 4 lbs on both guns

[matt711]

Tika T3, stainless with a synthetic stock in .270 or 30-06. If weight is a factor go with a .243 and a short action. Inexpensive rifle with great accuracy.

I wouldnt worry about the safety. In todays world where lawyers rule the Earth no gun maker is going to risk bringing a product to market that has a safety which isnt reliable.

Go with a mid range Leupold optic, if you own the gun long enough your eyes will eventually demand an optic anyway.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by vash

i only have leupold scopes.

Me too.

Originally Posted by 9dreizig

Also have a 375 H&H in a Winchester Model 70 Classic

My favorite bolt gun in one of my favorite calibers. I bought one of the new "pre-64's" when they first came out, about what, 15 years ago?

Here we are in Alaska, on one of those days that make me love Model 70's. That's steam coming off of me and the cape, but it did freeze every day. We were a good two hour bush plane ride out of Kotzebue, and the plane simply dropped us off and left. Left us there for nine days, all on our own. Any equipment trouble would have been a real PIA. The little 1.5-4x Leupold worked great, but if it failed, there were still the irons. The M70, of course, functioned flawlessly.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Not much traditional about this bolt action...but I've got a hankering for a Scout rifle..

Steyr Scout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Very cool rifles, Paul. And they have the good Colonel's seal of approval as well.

Take a look at the new Ruger Gunsite Scout. This one has me kind of pondering it.

[vash]

jeff..how much is that? available calibers? i cant surf anything "weapons" on my work computer.

[Jeff Higgins]

I believe it only comes in .308. That Cabela's price is in line with what I see locally.

One of Cooper's requirements for his Scout Rifle is that it be chambered in a common military caliber. Not that that will stop Ruger from introducing more calibers in it, but it's been out for a year or two and they haven't yet. Nothing wrong with a .308 bolt gun, though. I think this thing would serve most folks better than semi autos, like the M1A, for example.

[vash]

damn it jeff!! i like it!

i am still stinging from the M1A, my brother's SWAT team got for test gun. they all own one personally, so they didnt have to shoot it. after 8 months or so, he called the company and asked them for info on shipping it back. they said, "heck..find us someone to take it for $900 and save us the trouble of shipping it"..

i was offered it. i dont want to get into the nitty gritty..but i turned it down. just stacking up the regrets..

[Jeff Higgins]

Fortune may have smiled, vash. I think the Ruger is a better rifle for a civilian. If you would have sprung for the M1A, you couldn't justify the Ruger... Just sayin'...