When is a sale final?

[Dueller]

WOW! This reminds of exam questions in law school. You have elements of contract law, recission, modification, specific perfomance, agency, bailment, yadadadada on up to UCC. WHEW! To fully answer it as an exam questioin would take several pages.

Starting with old case law brings up the 19th century case of Rose of Aberlone (Sherwood v. Walker). Farmer buys a cow thinking it is barren. Turns out the cow is carrying a calf. Famer gets a fertile cow when he thought he was buyin one that was barren. Was there a meeting of the minds? Seller wants to undo the deal...but I digress. And won't bore you with 4 centuries of case law. LOL

In a thumbnail you had offer, acceptance and consideration, peformance. Arms length transaction. Selling wheels is not in normal course of their business I suspect so UCC probably doesn't apply. But did he have authority to sell the 16 'wheels as agent for actual owner? Or was he only authorized to sell 15's? Gets kinda sticky factually. In any event the wheels were entrusted to shop guy by actual owner. In any type of bailment misdelivery makes him liable to actual owner. Especially in light of the fact you were a bona fide purchaser fo value without notice at the time of the transaction.

I'm getting a headache thinking about this.

Bottom line is you got a great deal on a set of wheels legally...probably.

From a moral point of view if the guy was gonna lose his job over this you might waanna returrn them so his kids wouldn't go hungry. But it sounds like he worked out his mistake with the shop owner and car owner. They'll probably make up the difference by giving the guy credit on his bill and jack up their invoice to cover it. lol

If one of them breaks when you're driving the car and you get hurt, you probably made the wrong decision.

Beginning to make my head hurt worse.

Since you got a $1250 set of wheels fo $250 and I've set your mind at ease, isn't my $500 fee ok for your peace of mind? Where do I send the bill? Lol

[MMARSH]

Originally Posted by Dueller

WOW! This reminds of exam questions in law school. You have elements of contract law, recission, modification, specific perfomance, agency, bailment, yadadadada on up to UCC. WHEW! To fully answer it as an exam questioin would take several pages.

Starting with old case law brings up the 19th century case of Rose of Aberlone (Sherwood v. Walker). Farmer buys a cow thinking it is barren. Turns out the cow is carrying a calf. Famer gets a fertile cow when he thought he was buyin one that was barren. Was there a meeting of the minds? Seller wants to undo the deal...but I digress. And won't bore you with 4 centuries of case law. LOL

In a thumbnail you had offer, acceptance and consideration, peformance. Arms length transaction. Selling wheels is not in normal course of their business I suspect so UCC probably doesn't apply. But did he have authority to sell the 16 'wheels as agent for actual owner? Or was he only authorized to sell 15's? Gets kinda sticky factually. In any event the wheels were entrusted to shop guy by actual owner. In any type of bailment misdelivery makes him liable to actual owner. Especially in light of the fact you were a bona fide purchaser fo value without notice at the time of the transaction.

I'm getting a headache thinking about this.

Bottom line is you got a great deal on a set of wheels legally...probably.

From a moral point of view if the guy was gonna lose his job over this you might waanna returrn them so his kids wouldn't go hungry. But it sounds like he worked out his mistake with the shop owner and car owner. They'll probably make up the difference by giving the guy credit on his bill and jack up their invoice to cover it. lol

If one of them breaks when you're driving the car and you get hurt, you probably made the wrong decision.

Beginning to make my head hurt worse.

Since you got a $1250 set of wheels fo $250 and I've set your mind at ease, isn't my $500 fee ok for your peace of mind? Where do I send the bill? Lol

Jim,

I have a quick question. Owner of a very expensive motorcycle consigned it with a dealer. They called me about the motorcycle, the day they got it and i agreed to the owners price. Deposit was made, financing secured, a binder from the insurance company was faxed to the dealer. I was scheduled to pick up the bike 2 days later. Next day, i receive a call from the dealer stating theowner thinks the bike sold to quickly and now wants to list it on ebay for 35K.......Do/Did i have any recourse....

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by MMARSH

Jim,

I have a quick question. Owner of a very expensive motorcycle consigned it with a dealer. They called me about the motorcycle, the day they got it and i agreed to the owners price. Deposit was made, financing secured, a binder from the insurance company was faxed to the dealer. I was scheduled to pick up the bike 2 days later. Next day, i receive a call from the dealer stating theowner thinks the bike sold to quickly and now wants to list it on ebay for 35K.......Do/Did i have any recourse....

Yup...you have an absolute right to demand specific performance. You had offer, acceptance, consideration (deposit plus promise to pay in 2 days). All that's missing is performance of closing the deal. This is assuming it wasn't some kind of contingent contract.

[911SauCy]

You paid, he gave you the wheels.

THEY'RE YOURS!

Get them redone!

+1 on score of the century!

[Nathans_Dad]

Thanks for all the input guys. After several days of thought, prayer and agonizing, I have decided to go with my gut and just give the guy his wheels back.

I'll shed several tears over the 16 x 8s but maybe the Porsche gods will smile on me. I hope so.

[911SauCy]

You've got to be kidding....

[MMARSH]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

Thanks for all the input guys. After several days of thought, prayer and agonizing, I have decided to go with my gut and just give the guy his wheels back.

I'll shed several tears over the 16 x 8s but maybe the Porsche gods will smile on me. I hope so.

Honestly, thats what i would have done as well.....you'll find a better set, the right situation and sleep well when its over.

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by 911SauCy

You've got to be kidding....

LOL, no I wish I was. I guess the decision came down to a pretty simple question. What is my own peace of mind worth about the whole thing? I knew up front that I was getting one hell of a deal. It was obvious this guy had NO CLUE what he was selling. He even admitted it later on the phone, he said that he dealt with new Porsches, not the older ones.

I figure my cost difference between what I paid and what I will pay to replace them is around $800 or so. To me, I'd rather pay the $800 and keep my peace of mind about the whole thing. Maybe it's dumb, but when I have a pit in my stomach about the decision, I pretty much know what I have to do.

[LI911]

Too bad you can't confirm his story, seems more likely he recalculated the value

[Dueller]

Just out of curiosity what is your thought process? Too good of a deal? If you find out the guy got a better offer and he's gonna sell them anyway would that change your mind? Do you think it was an honest mistake? Guy you were dealing with seems to be a bit deceptive in all this. What do you think is really going on?

Not criticizing your decison but curious how you came to this conclusion.

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by LI911

Too bad you can't confirm his story, seems more likely he recalculated the value

I agree, unfortunately there's no way to tell. I do plan to let him know that he and I will have an issue if I find out he resold them for a higher price.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Dueller

I won't bore you with 4 centuries of case law. LOL

why not?

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by Dueller

Just out of curiosity what is your thought process? Too good of a deal? If you find out the guy got a better offer and he's gonna sell them anyway would that change your mind? Do you think it was an honest mistake? Guy you were dealing with seems to be a bit deceptive in all this. What do you think is really going on?

Not criticizing your decison but curious how you came to this conclusion.

I honestly don't know what is going on with him. He says it was an honest mistake and that the tires came off a 930 that is raced regularly. The tires on the wheels were racing tires so I guess that part checks out.

If I knew in advance that he was just trying to get more money I would tell him to pound sand. If he turns around and sells them to someone else for $1250 then I guess I'll leave that up to God or Karma or whatever you believe.

I guess I decided that I would take him at his word. I can't control what he does, there is no way to know whether he is lying to me or not and there is no way for me to verify any of his story so I have to take it at face value.

Honestly, I think it mostly came down to whoever owns the 930. It's not his fault that the people he dropped his car off with are idiots and I know if I had some original wheels for my 930 I'd want them back. That's about it.

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

I honestly don't know what is going on with him. He says it was an honest mistake and that the tires came off a 930 that is raced regularly. The tires on the wheels were racing tires so I guess that part checks out.

If I knew in advance that he was just trying to get more money I would tell him to pound sand. If he turns around and sells them to someone else for $1250 then I guess I'll leave that up to God or Karma or whatever you believe.

I guess I decided that I would take him at his word. I can't control what he does, there is no way to know whether he is lying to me or not and there is no way for me to verify any of his story so I have to take it at face value.

Honestly, I think it mostly came down to whoever owns the 930. It's not his fault that the people he dropped his car off with are idiots and I know if I had some original wheels for my 930 I'd want them back. That's about it.

The thing that doesn't pass the smell test to me is he said he was supposed to sell some 15's. But then when you wanted to swap he didn't have the 15's....hmmmm. I believe I'd want a little more info about exactly whom these 16's belong to. Maybe they want to sell them.

I dunno. Sounds like somebody else responded to the ad and informed this guy they were worth more than he sold them for so he tracks you down to get them back.

But I understand where you'e coming from.

[Nathans_Dad]

Yeah, that's my cynical view too. All I can hope is that karma works in reverse if he resells them. Plus, he offered to pay me a bit more for them to compensate me for all my trouble so I guess there's that.

[Jeff Higgins]

You did good, Rick.

We can only control our own decisions, peace, "kharma", and mental well being. I, for one, feel mine is worth more than $250. Something like this would nag at me for a long, long time. Not worth it. Now you can move on with a clear conscience. That's invaluable.

[genrex]

He doesn't want you to talk to his boss because then you'll know the real story. I would take the wheels with you but leave them in your car, until you talk with the boss and get the real story. Then proceed from there, depending on karma...

_

[t-tom]

Good for you. Piece of mind is worth a lot to me as well. You could always call him and tell him you are bringing them back, then have a friend call and ask if they have "any old porsche wheels for sale" If say yes the you know he was lying to you. If he says no then he may be telling the truth.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

He texted me shortly after we hung up and said "Sorry about the confusion, don't worry about the wheels." I also called him today and asked him if the situation was resolved and he said "Yes, don't worry about it. I'm going to figure something out with the customer. I appreciate your call."

As odd and inconsistent as his story seems, this last quote appears to give it some credibility.

If his story is true, couldn't you ask to speak directly to the 930 owner to confirm if this was a mistake? You could ask him if he intended to sell those wheels, a different set, or none at all. Since you've decided to return the wheels, this would go a long way to reassure you the seller wasn't scamming for a higher price. I can't see any good reason why the seller wouldn't allow you to speak with the 930 owner, if it's a legitimate mistake.

[craigster59]

Well, good for you with the whole karma/ peace of mind thing, but a 60 sec search beforehand on the internet/ smartphone would have given him a price point to sell the wheels. He f'ed up in my opinion, he's just lucky he got out unscathed. He owes you big time.