Interested in building my own home...

[JavaBrewer]

Well the consensus here is to put this thought away and I'm starting to see the logic. That said I am going to contact some local folks and fully explore this further.

I really appreciate the inputs and honesty. I am fully confident of being able to finish trim a 2500 sq/ft home within 3-4 months - did nearly that in half the time twice already. I guess I am still coming to grips with the project costs without the expensive finish work and of course the permit hurdles.

Best,
David

[LakeCleElum]

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer

I am fully confident of being able to finish trim a 2500 sq/ft home within 3-4 months - did nearly that in half the time twice already.

Trim: My builder quoted $24,000 + sales tax for interior doors and trim, using "Alder" wood for doors.

For $8,000, I bought Oak doors and did it myself...I had the doors and baseboard sprayed (finished) by the supplier...I finished the window trim myself........ Installed over 3 months working about 3 days per week......Not bad pay for part-time work over the winter months....

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer

Much sound advice here - good news or bad I really appreciate your inputs.

At 50 I'm not up for full time construction work. My intent was to get the basics completed and then spending 4-5 months trimming the interior to our taste. I don't want to pay for a GC if I don't have too. I have spent much time inspecting homes in various states of construction and have a general idea of the process - but admittedly on several key bits (foundation/slab, framing codes) just enough to be dangerous. I am confident I could handle all of this if I didn't have a newish FT job (gotta go hard and earn it) on the horizon.

I'm starting to think this is going to be far more complicated than I had anticipated...no surprise there.

The existing home market is really taking off here and going for location only means I am buying a home I will partially demolish while leasing something the family can operate within. I was hoping a fresh build would be less problematic but perhaps I was wrong.

Please keep posting your thoughts.

Best,
David

David,

I have built and or remodeled many homes. My first advice would be go down and talk to the building inspector. Get to know him/her they can be very helpful and if they know you want to do it right and are not looking to get over on them they will help you. I have never had an issue with an inspector. Second. There's no need for a GC they schedule the subs and as a result mark up the cost. Because you do not have a deadline you can schedule at your leisure. You can take your time with the foundation and utility rough ins. Your issue is going to be getting the structure water tight. You will want to schedule your roofer and sider to arrive shortly after the framing is complete to get the building water tight. Again, since you don't have a deadline you can schedule, electricians, plumbers, sheet rockers, painters at your leisure one at a time. You may even be able to cut a deal on pricing to have them come in to fill dead time in their schedules. Also most areas allow you as the homeowner to pull the permits for everything on a single family home. You can hire laborers to do a lot of the grunt work and just have the trades people come to tie everything in. Why pay an electrician $40.00 an hour to pull wires when you can hire a high school kid $15.00 to do it? I do not know costs in your area but in my area $140.00 is a doable square foot cost but that will get you builders grade materials. I have also had good results using plans out of a catalog many of the architects guarantee the plan will meet code so if your inspector states such and such needs to be changed they will send a new specification schedule to accommodate. Also as the home owner builder you can make changes yourself and submit to the building inspector for approval. Remember costs run up when you make changes in the middle of construction and work needs to be redone (change orders) keep those to a minimum unless you can do it yourself.

I hope this helps.

[javadog]

Keep in mind that he mentioned using a construction loan, so he will not have all the time in the world. Time costs money...

JR

[drcoastline]

Agreed JR. But it is not as critical as building for a client with a move in deadline or to go to settlement. He even posted he would take 3-4 months to finish the trim. When I said at his leisure I didn't mean it would take him a year to finish. But when you are trying to finish on a deadline and you have trades people tripping over each other or worse one doesn't show up on Tuesday like the electrician who delays the HVAC guy Wednesday. Then the HVAC guy cant come back for two weeks that's a problem. Or the inspector can't get inspect the rough in for a few days delaying the sheet rocker. That delays all the other trades from doing their finish work. From his description he won't have that issue. Scheduling isn't as big an issue.

He has the luxury of going about the construction process at a more leisurely pace. That's all I am saying.

[javadog]

I know what you meant. I'm a commercial GC. Still, I think it will take him a lot longer than he thinks, if he does enough of the work himself to make any real difference in the cost. Plus, if he weren't financing it, the contruction phase might be loose enough on the back end to allow him to live there before it's 100% finished, which would take some load off of his cost for temporary housing. I'm not saying what is correct, just what can happen.

The more I think about this, the more I think he needs to stay put and ride the depreciation curve in his present house. I know all about maintenance and upkeep hassles when the kids (free slaves) are gone. For me, though, I think it would be relatively easy to farm out some yardwork and maid service and keep things reasonable. Financially, it makes a lot more sense.

JR

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer

Well the consensus here is to put this thought away and I'm starting to see the logic. That said I am going to contact some local folks and fully explore this further.

I really appreciate the inputs and honesty. I am fully confident of being able to finish trim a 2500 sq/ft home within 3-4 months - did nearly that in half the time twice already. I guess I am still coming to grips with the project costs without the expensive finish work and of course the permit hurdles.

Best,
David

Time for my input. Your comment about the expensive finish work is what drew me in. Outside of cabinets, trim and finish is not that expensive. And it can go fast, so labor costs are not that much either. Now, if you're going to build, finish and install all your cabinetry, you will save a bundle.

Things to budget:
Fireplace, you can't really have a fireplace in CA anymore, but you can have a heating appliance in a chimney. If that is to be masonry, add 15K
Stair case, if all natural wood, add 10 to 15K
Same for upgrades to all the entry doors, passge doors and moldings.
Hardwood natural cabinets installed with hardware, add 40K
Top of the line appliances, add 20K over plain jane.
Of course there's the floors, you can have wool carpets, hardwood and ceramic over poly and vinyl. Add some more.
Your roofing costs will vary according to your fire zone. Add 20K more for upgrade.
Hillside foundation, 40 tot 60K, 80 to 120K if more severe.
Long driveway, well if concrete, probably $6 sq/ft.
Landscape, well if you want it to look like it fits the home, 40K

I echo the comments about building a home. Most folks will do it only once. The reason is that most construction labor is involved with commercial or multiple units. Custom homes rely on who is available at the time of need. It's a real crapshoot unless you have people in the pipeline like multi unit builders do. Or career contractors like look 171.

Building things plus the door and window aspect is all I know and I'm at the point where I won't touch anything unless I can do it in a few hours by myself. It's a nasty business and no one is happy.

Not a world you want to step into not knowing and then having to live with what you get well into your retirement. YMMV.

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

Why pay an electrician $40.00 an hour to pull wires when you can hire a high school kid $15.00 to do it? ...

because you have to find a HS kid that won't be a fk-up, or come back later and trash the place, etc. etc.

The overall idea is good - I did my wiring pulls myself.

I would definitely DIY on the trim - it is not heavy lifting and just requires some artisanship (if I can do it then anyone can do it) and learning a few tricks.

I look at trim carpentry as mid-way between framing and cabinetmaking - not nearly as much equipment and skill required as cabinetry (which I'd never do without a fully equipped shop)

one other thing - you need to be careful about what one group of tradesmen "leaves" for you or the next group - it can be a nightmare or make things easy...

all my comments are from the aspect of a DIYer who started 15 years ago with no experience...

[look 171]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

David,

I have built and or remodeled many homes. My first advice would be go down and talk to the building inspector. Get to know him/her they can be very helpful and if they know you want to do it right and are not looking to get over on them they will help you. I have never had an issue with an inspector. Second. There's no need for a GC they schedule the subs and as a result mark up the cost. Because you do not have a deadline you can schedule at your leisure. You can take your time with the foundation and utility rough ins. Your issue is going to be getting the structure water tight. You will want to schedule your roofer and sider to arrive shortly after the framing is complete to get the building water tight. Again, since you don't have a deadline you can schedule, electricians, plumbers, sheet rockers, painters at your leisure one at a time. You may even be able to cut a deal on pricing to have them come in to fill dead time in their schedules. Also most areas allow you as the homeowner to pull the permits for everything on a single family home. You can hire laborers to do a lot of the grunt work and just have the trades people come to tie everything in. Why pay an electrician $40.00 an hour to pull wires when you can hire a high school kid $15.00 to do it? I do not know costs in your area but in my area $140.00 is a doable square foot cost but that will get you builders grade materials. I have also had good results using plans out of a catalog many of the architects guarantee the plan will meet code so if your inspector states such and such needs to be changed they will send a new specification schedule to accommodate. Also as the home owner builder you can make changes yourself and submit to the building inspector for approval. Remember costs run up when you make changes in the middle of construction and work needs to be redone (change orders) keep those to a minimum unless you can do it yourself.

I hope this helps.

I never understood those plans but have never looked at one. What the heck do you do with the foundation, soil condition and engineering and Calc? Building and safety or plan check isn't doing that for you. Heck at least not around here. They might be a lot nice where you are. Architectural drawing (only) for a 2500 sq house should run somewhere between 6-8k without all the stuff mentioned above. For that kind of saving, do you want to be stuck with someone else's plan. Especially a hill side view home. In the long run, you might save a couple or few thousand. Not worth it IMO.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Time for my input. Your comment about the expensive finish work is what drew me in. Outside of cabinets, trim and finish is not that expensive. And it can go fast, so labor costs are not that much either. Now, if you're going to build, finish and install all your cabinetry, you will save a bundle.

Things to budget:
Fireplace, you can't really have a fireplace in CA anymore, but you can have a heating appliance in a chimney. If that is to be masonry, add 15K
Stair case, if all natural wood, add 10 to 15K
Same for upgrades to all the entry doors, passge doors and moldings.
Hardwood natural cabinets installed with hardware, add 40K
Top of the line appliances, add 20K over plain jane.
Of course there's the floors, you can have wool carpets, hardwood and ceramic over poly and vinyl. Add some more.
Your roofing costs will vary according to your fire zone. Add 20K more for upgrade.
Hillside foundation, 40 tot 60K, 80 to 120K if more severe.
Long driveway, well if concrete, probably $6 sq/ft.
Landscape, well if you want it to look like it fits the home, 40K

I echo the comments about building a home. Most folks will do it only once. The reason is that most construction labor is involved with commercial or multiple units. Custom homes rely on who is available at the time of need. It's a real crapshoot unless you have people in the pipeline like multi unit builders do. Or career contractors like look 171.

Building things plus the door and window aspect is all I know and I'm at the point where I won't touch anything unless I can do it in a few hours by myself. It's a nasty business and no one is happy.

Not a world you want to step into not knowing and then having to live with what you get well into your retirement. YMMV.

Thanks Milt.

No commercial or mutiple units for me. I like my sleep. I built out a couple of high end restaurant in Old town Pasadena, because I knew the owners well and have worked with them before, otherwise, no thanks. it was fun, but I can see myself doing that all the time. Residential is a lot easier on my poor soul.

David,

Make friends with the local custom builders. No, not the ones that build tracks of 6 or 8 homes, but the high end custom builders (building single homes)and ask them for references on subs. You will need good subs. Those subs that do not do production work daily seem to do better detail work I noticed. Scheduling and managing the subs will be your biggest challenge. Lets the subs deal with the inspector please, not you. Pay only after they signed off on the rough work on a particular trade.

Budget? I don't understand why do people go over budget? Its spec'd out in the plan. when they bid, they bid to spec. If you change your mind, then the pricing should go up or down accordingly. You want to see Guarantee Maximum Price on all of your contracts. If they go over, then they are responsible for the completion of said project.

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by dennis in se pa

Buy a fixer and do it. No way you can build new as cheaply. If cost is not an issue then that is a different matter. I have years of experience as a builder and real estate agent. Especially now while prices are depressed. FWIW I have built a lot of, but never bought or lived in a new home. Wat too expensive AND the taxes will eat you up.

This. Building a new home will stress you in every way. If you had done a few projects in the past, maybe you would be ready for this, but the trick now is to get something where the basic structure is there, and for you to contribute to the renovation in meaningful, cost saving ways.

If you truly want to downsize, this is what you do. The dream of building your own home is not likely a move in that direction. IMO, being realistic is finding the right home, one that is affordable, where YOU can see the potential. If you wanted to build a 911, what would you start with ? A cosmetically challenged but mechanically solid car, or would you do a full ground up build ? You would most likely buy a car with good bones. Upgrading flooring, doing a bathroom or trim is where you want to be. Maybe taking out one interior wall, or updating someone else's bad decor.

I have been building for 35 years, and before that I worked with my father from the time I could talk. 90% of the time, this is the way to go to achieve your goals.

[RWebb]

OTOH... remodelling a fixer makes it harder to do insulation (2x4 vs 2x6 walls) and may saddle you with a floor plan you don't like

check it out tho, as taxes & permit fees can make a BIG difference

a guy on the next block bought a rundown place and stripped it to nothing more than the concrete foundation and a short wall of 2x4 studs - he then built (all by himself) a 2.5 story house there

IIRC, he's a contractor - but he did the whole thing w/o a helper(!)

it looks like it aged him a lot tho...

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by look 171

I never understood those plans but have never looked at one. What the heck do you do with the foundation, soil condition and engineering and Calc? Building and safety or plan check isn't doing that for you. Heck at least not around here. They might be a lot nice where you are. Architectural drawing (only) for a 2500 sq house should run somewhere between 6-8k without all the stuff mentioned above. For that kind of saving, do you want to be stuck with someone else's plan. Especially a hill side view home. In the long run, you might save a couple or few thousand. Not worth it IMO.

The plans come with a foundation drawing. Mostly a poured footer with a block foundation. Of course there are instances where you may need some additional structure such as a hill side if the house is going to hang over the edge or in my area we are a barrier island. It's sandy soil water table is 4 feet no bedrock. So most foundations here require driving pilings fo-50 feet to a clay layer. Again, in my area as as ingle family up to 3 family actually you can draw the piling plan yourself. However, the architect from the plan will address this for an additional fee if you wish them to. He stated he was looking into using a plan from a developer in the are so he wasn't looking at a custom plan to begin with. But the stock plans can be customized if he wished or he could do it himself. When you look at a custom plan for $5-$6,000.00 vs. a plan from a book for a complete set of 8 for $1,500.00 that's a significant savings.

[look 171]

I bet you will have to pay an other couple of thousand bucks to make those plans work. If you have to move some interior structural wall with long span, right there its 1500 dollars just for the stamp. I really think its only 2-3000 dollar difference. In the big picture, I am not sure if its worth the headache or the savings (still someone else's design). There are a few unknowns here, and all along, we have been talking about headaches and stress. IMO, don't skimp on the planning, (most want to and save it for the build) because you will pay for it later. I have never even seen a set of plan like that. This is only my prediction and theory.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by RWebb

because you have to find a HS kid that won't be a fk-up, or come back later and trash the place, etc. etc.

The overall idea is good - I did my wiring pulls myself.

I would definitely DIY on the trim - it is not heavy lifting and just requires some artisanship (if I can do it then anyone can do it) and learning a few tricks.

I look at trim carpentry as mid-way between framing and cabinetmaking - not nearly as much equipment and skill required as cabinetry (which I'd never do without a fully equipped shop)

one other thing - you need to be careful about what one group of tradesmen "leaves" for you or the next group - it can be a nightmare or make things easy...

all my comments are from the aspect of a DIYer who started 15 years ago with no experience...

Not all high school kids are bad. There are plenty who want to learn and earn a few bucks. I bet he could find a kid a local tech school that would be interested.

[JavaBrewer]

For those curious here is the lot we are contemplating. There is another similar lot just below and a larger 3 acre lot above.

I have done many existing home renovations including some light framing and basic electrical however most of my experience is with stone work (travertine/marble) on floors and walls, wood flooring, cabinet installation, lighting upgrades, doors, and tons of moulding. I'm going to start contacting appropriate folks as detailed by folks here in the next week or two.

Thanks again.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by look 171

I bet you will have to pay an other couple of thousand bucks to make those plans work. If you have to move some interior structural wall with long span, right there its 1500 dollars just for the stamp. I really think its only 2-3000 dollar difference. In the big picture, I am not sure if its worth the headache or the savings (still someone else's design). There are a few unknowns here, and all along, we have been talking about headaches and stress. IMO, don't skimp on the planning, (most want to and save it for the build) because you will pay for it later. I have never even seen a set of plan like that. This is only my prediction and theory.

I'm not sure why you would think that. The plans are drawn to the UFC. Granted there may be some local codes and conditions that may need to be addressed but no reason to shy away from them. The other benefit is time. If you want vellums they arrive 1-2 days or you can have a pdf emailed immediately and take the file to a printer vs. weeks or months using an architect from scratch.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

I'm not sure why you would think that. The plans are drawn to the UFC. Granted there may be some local codes and conditions that may need to be addressed but no reason to shy away from them. The other benefit is time. If you want vellums they arrive 1-2 days or you can have a pdf emailed immediately and take the file to a printer vs. weeks or months using an architect from scratch.

As a contractor, I want to make the process from the beginning as smooth as possible. This is not my job by the way, but the last thing I want to do is to leave a bad taste in their mouth. This is an issue and must be address in the pre-planning stage. If they will be my clients, I must make sure they understand time is money, stress, and show them where to save and where to trim the fat. IMO, saving a few thousand bucks from design isn't worth doing because of restrictions from a set of pre-designed plan. To save three thousand on a two or three hundred thousand dollar project and still have corrections or restrictions is crazy. But, this is something the owner should decide, not me. I can only point it out to them. If I do not do that, I should not be in this custom building business.

[look 171]

David, you see the big granite on there?

[ckelly78z]

I think I would first check with local zoning, or the HOA (if applicable) to see if there is certain building requirements of square footage, or general shape/design of the house to be built. They may require a 3000 sq ft minimum limit and possibly only a two story home design like some neigborhoods, just check that you can actually build what you want without bending rules, and thus having difficulty in obtaining permits.