Bath room shower DIY questions.

rnln · 01-13-2013, 12:26 AM

Fixing one of my bathroom's shower has been on my mind for years, but I didn't have time and gut to break it apart until now. I have read many bathroom remodel threads and asked multiple questions, thanks to Trekkor, Widebody911, Look 171, and others. Still I have more questions to ask.

The first reason why I need to do this is that the tiles crack bad. One of the crack that worry me the most of the horizontal crack, red highlight, on the bottom. I imagine either the wood studs are damaged/sank, or maybe it's just that the house settled?

My plan:
1- Subfloor definitely needs to be off and redone.

2- walls: my plan was to pull the whole walls off to look at the studs and redo it completely, but after the tiles off (all day work), I found that the concrete is in good shape except I punch a hole around 5" diameter. Since it is in good shape, I don't want to destroy it and redo it again if I don't have to. So I think I will punch the concrete off the mess little by little from bottom up around a foot or two. Pull up the mess and repair the studs if I have too. Then nail the mess back on the studs and flow/patch only that section.

Do you think that is acceptable or I have to pull the whole wall off and redo everything?

strath44 · strath44's Garage

it sometimes easier just to pull the whole lot off and start fresh. putting new tiles on top of repairs and cement can produce an uneven finish, having said that it doesn 't look too bad just at the base.

If you are fixing the floor a shower tray might be an easier more watertight solution than an wet floor which are prone to leaks and dirty grout lines. Also if there is any movement in the sub floor then a tray will allow some flex especially when its sealed to the base row of tiles by silicon.

Go for as big tiles as possible in this environment as they are easier to clean and again if they are continually wet there is less grout to go off colour. i like 300x600mm tiles they are big but not too bad to work with.

There are some good new grouts out there that have almost resin based properties and set very hard and resist water well. There are even some premixed ones that are good now for grout but just be careful they can be tricky to clean off the tiles if left too long. Avoid ready mixed tubs of tile adhesive at all costs they generally perform badly under shower room conditions, seen a lot of loose tiles with ready mixed tubs of adhesive.

rfuerst911sc · 01-13-2013, 02:41 AM

Is your mind made up that you'll be replacing with tile again ? In my opinion any tile installation regardless of how well it is done is going to have problems down the road. Grout is always going to get grungy looking and eventually will leak. No one product is perfect but I'm a fan of the one piece or two piece fiberglass shower stalls. My house was built in 1986 and has two one piece tub/shower walls in fiberglass and they still look great. No cracks either. Last year I added a third bath in the basement, I couldn't physically fit a one piece ( framing was in place from previous owner ) so I installed a two piece shower stall. Piece of cake to install and only one horizontal seam which is very easy to seal during installation.

kiwiokie · 01-13-2013, 03:49 AM

Only had this done once and the problem was the metal pan at the base of the shower had corroded causing the tiles to drop and crack. Lower section was completely removed, old pan out, new pan in. Last photo looks like you can see the top edge of a metal pan and rust stains in the crack.

rnln · 12:27 AM

Day 2... after another day of work. Surrounding walls are off. Regarding my question on whether to leave the concrete floating walls in place and just tiles on top, it's too late now. There is no point to return.

The subfloor looks like it was hot mob. What suprised me was that the 4x6 woods around the subfloor was just placed in there with 2 nails into the wall. I could just lift them up by hands after the tiles and mesh were broke off. I thought they should be bolts to the ground.

2x6 wood studs and pipes are in very good condition.

The source of the crack wall problem was because the mesh was too short. The mesh ended couple inches above the subfloor, so there was a short distant of floating concrete without mesh. The highlighted crack was right at the end of the mesh. When breaking the wall off, it was too easy for me to break it where there was no mesh.

I think I did a very good job in 2 days weekends

. I will slowly clean up the area and inspect the drain pipe next week.

jrj3rd · 01-14-2013, 05:25 AM

Schluter Systems showers. Do it once, do it right....

onewhippedpuppy · 01-14-2013, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

Is your mind made up that you'll be replacing with tile again ? In my opinion any tile installation regardless of how well it is done is going to have problems down the road. Grout is always going to get grungy looking and eventually will leak. No one product is perfect but I'm a fan of the one piece or two piece fiberglass shower stalls. My house was built in 1986 and has two one piece tub/shower walls in fiberglass and they still look great. No cracks either. Last year I added a third bath in the basement, I couldn't physically fit a one piece ( framing was in place from previous owner ) so I installed a two piece shower stall. Piece of cake to install and only one horizontal seam which is very easy to seal during installation.

This. At the very least go with a one-piece pan, either fiberglass or solid surface. You can always tile the walls if desired.

tharbert · tharbert's Garage

Well, at least you know the problem was basically because of a botched installation. The structure looks fine.

Those cement boards make easy work of reinstalling waterproof walls. I'd go with a neo angle base shower unit along with large stone tile (18x18, maybe) and a deluge shower head.

I would look for glass walls, not the anodized metal with Plexiglas. If the house is a keeper, that's money well spent.

If the valve hardware is dated or corroded, nows the time to re-plumb that valve.

Heck, you're almost done!

daepp · 01-14-2013, 06:44 AM

Personally I would go with stone, micro grout and glass. I would sheet the studs with marine plywood and then begin.

9dreizig · 01-14-2013, 07:09 AM

I'd give a shout out to Trekkor,, does fantastic work and tile is not a "learn as you go" kind of job!!

look 171 · 01-14-2013, 07:18 AM

I am late to this party. If you are to stay in the house and retire there, then float the walls rip the reat of the pan out and start over. In the mean time, check the valves, and the drain. Install a light in that shower if it doesn't already have one. It looks like a home built in the 50-60s, so no light in there I can only assume. Gav. pipes still there? Get rid of them now.

Stone, tile, they are all the same. Remember, if you are installing stone, you just might have to polish the edges where it will show. For example, on the dam. Glass tile is a fad and it will go away just like anything else. it will date the shower in 10 years. Just like the flat white modern kitchen cabinets of the 80s.

rnln · 12:57 PM

Tough choice. I always like the look and feel of the tiles all around include floor pan but I don't think I can take the risk doing my own float especially around the curb and joining liner at the drain. On the wall, it won't be a big deal since I can do hardi board. So what left for me is either save some to have it professionally done, or do the fiberclass pan. This way, I also don't have to worry about floor grouting and leaking in the future.
Lowes and home depot time to night to see what is available out there.
Thanks guys

Hey Look, outside the shower, in the bathroom, my walls just have new paint done couple months ago. If I mastic tiles on the paint, will it be ok or do I have to take the paint off. The out layer of the wall is not drywall. It is plaster. I am ok to do it with thinset. Which is better between mastic and thinset on the wall?

look 171 · 01-14-2013, 01:07 PM

Depending on what's there now and how far does your tile overhangs over the plaster. If more then 3/4 of the tile is over Hardibacker then use mastic for the little section that over hangs the plaster. Personally I scrap the paint and thinset over that. Buy good thinset and addmix, its worth the money.

I like to run builder's paper over as much as I can into the overlapping area under the plaster or drywall. In your case, you might not be able to do that. I always paper the back of the hardibacker for cheap insurance.

onewhippedpuppy · 01-14-2013, 01:08 PM

Look for some sort of solid surface shower pan. Way more attractive than fiberglass if you plan to tile the walls. When we remodel our master bath I'm going to use these guys for a custom shower pan, as well as sheets to create solid wall panels. That way the only seam is where the wall meets the pan as well as the inside wall corners, way easier to keep nice than tile. We will also get a matching vanity top, and probably use the same material around a new drop-in tub.

Onyx Collection: Shower Base, Shower Pan, Custom Showers, Tub Replacements

I'm using these guys because they are a KS company, but I'm sure you have plenty of similar options in CA. Go to a non-chain home improvement store and they'll probably have more stuff like this, HD or Lowes will just try to sell their pre-fab stuff.

rnln · 01-14-2013, 01:11 PM

I agree, in the shower. Paper is cheap. How about in dry area? Is it better to mastic tile on painted plaster wall, or thinset?

Quote:

Originally Posted by look 171

Depending on what's there now and how far does your tile overhangs over the plaster. If more then 3/4 of the tile is over Hardibacker then use mastic for the little section that over hangs the plaster. Personally I scrap the paint and thinset over that. Buy good thinset and addmix, its worth the money.

I like to run builder's paper over as much as I can into the overlapping area under the plaster or drywall. In your case, you might not be able to do that. I always paper the back of the hardibacker for cheap insurance.

look 171 · 01-14-2013, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by look 171

Depending on what's there now and how far does your tile overhangs over the plaster. If more then 3/4 of the tile is over Hardibacker then use mastic for the little section that over hangs the plaster. Personally I scrap the paint and thinset over that. Buy good thinset and addmix, its worth the money.

This, but you can prime to get a better bond with mastic. How much of the tile is over the painted surface? How big are the tiles/stone? Use Gripper primer, not too many primers seem to really work.

Tell me what you need or like to do, I can give you phone numbers to people that will only do a portion of the work for you, like floating the pan.

Once you clean up that mess, take another pic of the shower will ya? I like to see the drain. How's the rest of the plumbing? The light, now is the time to do it.

Jeff

Noporscheform · 01-14-2013, 01:56 PM

We replaced a cultured marble oversized whirpool tub/wall surround in our last house. The tub had not leaked and still looked like new after eighteen years, so we went with the same material. No seams (except corners), custom fit walls and shower pan, added a new framless glass wall and it turned out beautifully - went with white on white - when we sold that house the new buyers commented on how much they liked the shower.

rnln · 02:20 PM

Thanks Look, Pipes are good. Studs are very good too. Drain pipe, do not know yet. I will have to clean up the area and inpect the drain pipe. Will post pics.

If I have the pan floated, with liner and such, would it be possible to do the surrounding walls with hardi board? I thought the walls and the pan need to be the same type (1 piece)? If not, tiles will be cracked at the join?
Edited: oh I can have the pan and the curb floated. Then the hrdi board come down from top to the floated surface. Got it.

On the dry area, out side the shower, I am thinking of either mastic or thinset tiles on the painted wall, maybe up to 3' or 4' high. I can have another layer of primer on it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by look 171

This, but you can prime to get a better bond with mastic. How much of the tile is over the painted surface? How big are the tiles/stone? Use Gripper primer, not too many primers seem to really work.

Tell me what you need or like to do, I can give you phone numbers to people that will only do a portion of the work for you, like floating the pan.

Once you clean up that mess, take another pic of the shower will ya? I like to see the drain. How's the rest of the plumbing? The light, now is the time to do it.

Jeff

look 171 · 01-14-2013, 02:54 PM

Oh, Tile wainscot. Just finish one for a client. Yes, Mastic will be fine. I am sure there's a better thin set out there for this application, but why spend the money and effort? Its not wearing any weight. You can screw 1/4" Hardibacker to the wall and use a regular thin set and cap the top of the wainscot. is the bath going to be stone? I will see if I can get you a pic of my own home. The wainscot is limestone.

Hugh R · 03:08 PM

Late to this, but my pipes are in the attic, I see yours come from below. When I redid my showers, I put in shutoff valves in the attic for the showers. If you think about it, every sink and toilet in a house has a shut-off valve on each line, but showers don't. If you have a valve problem you have to shut all the water to the house off while you deal with the issue. A small water-tight access box that is sort of decorative might be something to think about.