Fracking, whats the big deal?

[s_morrison57]

Seems like this procedure works and that the wells produce way more gas, I don't know much about it, I don't know if they get more oil as well but I've heard that the Environmentalists are all up in arms with the procedure and I can't figure out why. Anybody know what's got the tree hugger's all upset?
Finn

[porsche4life]

There is a greatly increased potential for ground water contamination. Those that do it say they are so deep that no way is it possible.... Those that are against it say that it's happening and we are all effed.


Just a synopsis. My uncle works for a company that does biocide treating for frac water. This is just the cliffs notes from talking to him.

[mreid]

Pollution of ground water and our aquifers with some pretty nasty chemicals known to cause some horrendous diseases. That's all.

[KNS]

The stuff that's pumped into the ground is supposed to contaminate ground water.

Edit: You guys are fast...

[speeder]

Yeah, so basically nothing serious...

[monoflo]

Yes it produces way more oil as well as gas - that might not be extracted.

It is accused of polluting ground water and causing earthquakes.

Been in the field with it alot and if done correctly - proper casing of the well bores and handling of frackfluids (source of green anxiety here is no one really comes clean as to what is in Frackfluid), muds and produced water is essential.

As modern Americans we seem to want completely risk free everything and fracking like mining, manufacturing,cooking and crossing the street has some degree of risk. But like anything it seems safe if managed

THis is headed for PARF
Mflo

[Joe Bob]

Well many if not most/all don't have baseline testing of the local water to prove that there wasn't contamination to begin with.

Not saying that fracking isn't a contributor but the locals didn't do what should have been done prior to operations.

Pulling stuff outta ground is always a dirty business. Shoving pressurized water down a hole without planning on where it's gonna end up isn't smart business.

[sammyg2]

People are naturally afraid of what they don't understand.
People tend to get their info from 5 second sound bytes.
People form opinions based on emotions rather than logic.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by monoflo

...But like anything it seems safe if managed...

Big IF to have faith in if you live in a fracking area.

I'm surrounded by very large ranches. Cow/horse country.

Few years back when gas prices were high the fracking activity around here was heavy.

Still see the occasional well popping up but not 2-3 a week like it was.

It's not pleasant to be around.

We had one in particular go up just outside the community boundary, don't know what the frak they were doing but for 3 straight days (and nights) it sounded like someone left a 747 running full throttle in my neighbors yard.

[70SATMan]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

People are naturally afraid of what they don't understand.
People tend to get their info from 5 second sound bytes.
People form opinions based on emotions rather than logic.

11.5 seconds.

[74-911]

One of the big issues with fracking is how much water it uses and virtually all of the fracking in TX goes on in areas which have little water to begin with. And as most of TX is in it's third year of drought it is going to get worse. The amount of water per frack varies but runs between 5 - 20 million gallons.. That is a lot of water to pump out of the ground in a semi-arid region and once it is gone, it is gone... (or rather pumped back into the ground as toxic waste).

Pick your poison I guess re: your groundwater: possibility of it being polluted or possibility of it just being pumped dry.

[BRPORSCHE]

Hmmm. Finally a topic that I actually have quite a bit of experience with!

My job is with unconventional resources (shale formations) and how to release hydrocarbons to maximize profit. These hydrocarbons are locked into extremely “tight” reservoirs due to permeability and porosity of the source rock. These formations do not have the interlocked pore system of the conventional reservoirs like carbonates and sandstones and have to be stimulated using various completion methods.

Most of these methods rely on hydraulic fracturing of a well bore. This can be either a vertical or horizontal depending on thickness of the reservoir and amount of money the operator is willing to spend. The method of fracing a well is actually quite simple to understand. Picture 20 diesel engines in sequence pumping water and sand(proppant) into the well to fracture and “prop open” the fractures. The water is then pumped back to the surface and is then recycled on other wells in the area. The service provider attempts to recover as much water as possible to reduce costs. Water is tough to find in certain areas and can be expensive. The hydrocarbons then flow to the surface and are processed. Bingo, you have drilled and completed an oil well in an unconventional reservoir. It’s actually a very impressive sight to see in person.

Now here is the problem the tree huggers have with the above….

They forget to remember that these reservoirs are 6,000 to 16,000 ft. below the surface. The aquifers are protected with thousands of feet of rock from the fracing and the wellbore is cased and cemented with up to several feet of cement depending on depth of the bore. It is essentially sealed shut. We are talking about thousands of ft. of rock that require thousands of HP to crack. There is no way that the water would travel back up to an aquifer. It just isn’t possible. These are not dangerous chemicals. I have seen the CEO of Halliburton drink a frac “chemical” on live TV and be perfectly fine. The frac solution is a combination of sand and water and ppm amounts of acid to acidize the well to increase P/P.

I have a lot more info to post, and I can do that later if you guys would like sources. We have to deal with the safety aspects daily and I am no stranger to these practices. I wouldn’t be able to do my work if I felt I was in anyway “harming the Earth.” I am a geologist by trade and am not easily swayed by bogus environmental impact reports which always end up to be bogus.

[fastfredracing]

Add to this the fact that there is simply nowhere you can go in northern Wva , southwest Pa., or eastern Ohio and buy a piece of rural property that has not been affected by this. It all either has piplines on the surface, an existing gas lease under the ground, or you are looking at wellheads, construction, and tons of truck traffic.
I'm not really against it, , but I wish it was not in my back yard.

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

There is a greatly increased potential for ground water contamination. Those that do it say they are so deep that no way is it possible.... Those that are against it say that it's happening and we are all effed.


Just a synopsis. My uncle works for a company that does biocide treating for frac water. This is just the cliffs notes from talking to him.

Yup a good synopsis.

This is what I do, I have numerous patents on hydraulic fracturing technology.

Depending on the frac design, it might use a few hundred gallons up to a few million gallons of water per frac. Some frac's are placed with produced water (water produced from other wells), some use hydrocarbons such as oil, some are gelled propane while others are pure nitrogen. I guess wat I am saying is that a frac that is pumped in the foothills of Alberta is very different to what we pump in west Texas, Pensylvania, NorthEast BC, or Siberia. A lot of engineering goes into the design of each frac and these are tailored to that well bore.

[madmmac]

Been doing it for 50-60 years. Here is a good link. What is Fracking? | Energy From Shale

I have mineral rights in North Dakota and a couple of decent producing wells. They are drilling 8 more right now.

They estimate with the technology right now that they are only recovering about 5% of the actual oil.

My wife says if the new wells produce like the last couple of wells for at least a year, I can retire.

Please continue to frack for at least a couple of years.

[kach22i]

A very deep deep toxin dumping well complying to all EPA regulations at the time is an example of how ground water at much higher levels can and will get contaminated.

6 homes affected by Gelman dioxane plume will be annexed into Ann Arbor
6 homes affected by Gelman dioxane plume will be annexed into Ann Arbor

Thousands of households in the prohibition zone in the northwest section of Ann Arbor already can’t use groundwater or dig wells due to concerns over dioxane pollution.

CARD (1,4-Dioxane)
CARD (1,4-Dioxane) — Official Website of Washtenaw County, MI

The Coalition for Action on Remediation of Dioxane (CARD) is a partnership of local governments and citizens that develops policies and strategies to address the problems caused by 1,4-dioxane released by Pall/Gelman. The groundwater contamination has expanded in Washtenaw County to an area over three miles long and one mile wide. The remediation of this site is likely to take an additional 20 years or more based on Pall Corporation and the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality estimates.

They will not tell us what is in their proprietary fracking liquids/compounds, but most will admit to Benzine as an ingredient, not something you want in your drinking water, not even fit for cattle.

Many suspect fracking is a cover for dumping toxins of many sorts at will, while the government looks the other way on technicalities.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by madmmac

I have mineral rights in North Dakota [...]
My wife says if the new wells produce like the last couple of wells for at least a year, I can retire.

This is one of the problems; people are willing to overlook any environmental issues if they're getting a check and it's not in their back yard.

[RWebb]

Fracking - fracturing - is a way to get at oil & gas that could not be economically recovered beforehand. It is driving a huge energy boom in the US, killing off the worst polluting energy source we have (coal, which is about like burning toxic dirt for energy), and increasing energy security for us.

Fracking often entails huge volumes of truck traffic on narrow rural roads, noise, commotion, etc. - all NIMBY factors.

Because it is pretty new, regulations to control pollution, encourage best practices, etc. are not yet in effect.

Env'l groups and some industry groups recently agreed upon a set of best practices to follow & a search here will pull up a thread I started on it.

Things to control include:

- drilling and chemicals used for that
- chemicals used for recovery during operations
- and leaks from methane (which is a potent, but short-lived greenhouse gas)

Chemicals can leak thru layers of rock thought to be impermeable and care needs to be taken in how they are sequestered and discarded.

If done properly, NG from fracking can reduce greenhouse effects by HALF compared with coal (!) If it displaces all coal burning, then mercury emissions (a neurotoxin that concentrates in fish, esp. tuna) will be near zero.

Some env'l groups are not so pleased with the great promise of NG from fracking as they think we should skip it and move to PV solar ASAP. I think that view is naive.

[madmmac]

I've been to ND and drank the water. Anything may be an improvement.

[71scgc]

Thank you brporsche for posting a small piece of the truth. I too am involved in hydraulic fracing. Haynesville Shale. The hew and cry out of Hollywood is hard to drown out with the truth. If you have a loud enough voice, you can convince people of anything. Matt Damon, a hyd. fracing expert? Really?
I also love the "A lot of people say..." "I heard that..." crowd. How many is a lot? Who said that?
The answers are comical.
It's only been going on for decades. All of a sudden now it's a problem. Meanwhile, people run from CA for jobs in ND. The economically suppressed, reservationed tribes of ND actually finally have a penny or two. Can't let that happen, now can we?
You'll whine until your Viking gas range doesn't work anymore. Who will you whine to then?
Be advised, if you have an IRA or a position in a mutual fund, you are invested in Oil and Gas.
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And you'll keep burning it!!

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