Getting a PPI doesn't seem realistic or possible.

[PushingMyLuck]

I am wondering how you guys have pulled off a PPI when buying your 911.
Everyone says "Get a PPI! Get a PPI!"
Seems easier said than done.

I was looking at an '86 Carrera I drove past in my neighborhood.
While I was there, another guy pulled up to write down the phone number.
When I met the seller, he was already on the phone with yet another caller.
The car was also listed on Ebay, so it was getting sold either way by the end of the weekend.

Asking this guy to PPI his car would have been out of the question.
He knows he's going to get an easy sale. No PPI.
(If I ever sell a car, it will be Ebay for this very reason. No annoying buyers to deal with.)
The seller just doesn't need to deal with the hassle when there are so many buyers who will not bother and just hand over the cash and drive away with a fake plate.

In fact, asking for a PPI just identifies you as a pain in the ass buyer, who will nickel and dime the PPI results.
Look, if it's been for sale for months with no takers, that's different;
But, it's a seller's market. It's almost like a bubble mania the way the forums sound.
Asking for a PPI takes the car off the market for a week, when there are people calling daily.

The other huge obstacle for a PPI is the fact that at least 1/2 the cars I've seen for sale are not even currently titled/insured/registered.
Most often, a flipper is selling it, or the car has lapsed. So, the car is not even drivable.

On that note, I've only seen a handful of 911's in person, but MOST sellers don't even let you drive the car, even if it IS registered (most are not)
I've only actually driven one, so I don't even know if I would enjoy a 911.
Right now, I just like the idea of owning one, but actually buying a 911 is a lot more convoluted than buying a regular car.

Let's say you do find a private seller with a registered car AND no other buyers.
Porsche shops are often over an hour away.
So, what do you do? Call a flatbed to tow the car?
At $5/mile, you're looking at a $500 tow, and $400-$500 for the PPI?
$1000 a pop and I can see why people have posted that it's taken them a year or two to get the right 911 for them!
That's a tough pill to swallow for each car that doesn't meet standards.

[RANDY P]

1)- do your best to check out the car on your own, look it over, inspect the wear on the tires, leaks, function of everything. Be diligent, inspect title even. If seller won't let you drive, sit shotgun and observe, have him hit brakes several times, hard.

2)- negotiate a price, make price contingent upon PPI coming back under a certain amount (say $250) or renegotiate or option to cancel sale. Agree on shop.

3) schedule PPI.

done..

[RANDY P]

PS if you really want to get to know the car, buy "101 Projects for your 911" written by Wayne the Pelican. Available here, obviously.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/MISC/POR_MISC_BESTSL_pg6.htm

[pcarhiway]

Pushing my luck,

I have seen your posts over on rennlist, you are making this whole process much too difficult.

There are nice cars out there for a fair price. If you can't schedule a PPI then try this method ---- the seller should have records and just talk to the shop where the car was worked on last.

Put $5,000 to $10,000 in a savings account in case you have major problems and just go drive the car.

You will have a lot more fun than agonizing over the whole process.

pcarhiway

[PushingMyLuck]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

PS if you really want to get to know the car, buy "101 Projects for your 911" written by Wayne the Pelican. Available here, obviously.
Pelican Parts.com - 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 1964-1989

Already read this.

[PushingMyLuck]

pcarhiway,
Your suggestion is good. The problem is that most 911's I've seen in person have not had any real work done. The last car I saw had the clutch redone 3 years ago. That's all. The car before that had a valve job 2 years ago. So, the shop has seen the car once, and will really not have anything to say about it, if they remember it at all.

[PushingMyLuck]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

1)- do your best to check out the car on your own, look it over, inspect the wear on the tires, leaks, function of everything. Be diligent, inspect title even. If seller won't let you drive, sit shotgun and observe, have him hit brakes several times, hard.

2)- negotiate a price, make price contingent upon PPI coming back under a certain amount (say $250) or renegotiate or option to cancel sale. Agree on shop.

3) schedule PPI.

done..

1) This is how it will have to be. You do your best with a checklist, and pray for some luck.

2) Not going to happen. He's getting the sale either way. He's not going to drop the price when the next 5 guys (or Ebay bidders) are not going to bother with a PPI. I've had one seller even tell me the agreed upon price is fixed regardless of PPI results. (So, what's the point of the PPI?)

3) Towing is prohibitive, and seller is just not going to allow it with this much other action in the market. I think the only way is to drive to a remote rural place to buy the car. But, that makes shopping for cars an entire process. Like setting aside a weekend to drive 5 hours into the backwoods. Plus, at that point, who knows how many hours away a PPI shop will be.

[PushingMyLuck]

Originally Posted by pcarhiway

Put $5,000 to $10,000 in a savings account in case you have major problems and just go drive the car.

pcarhiway

I have another thread that is trying to help me determine a proper reserve fund.
I think $5k to $10k is too low, since an engine rebuild black swan is $15k+. Game over if you only set aside $10k.
Even a top end is $7k. Plus, who knows what else. It seems $25k is a safer reserve fund, until I figure out otherwise. With a new brand, it is impossible to tell how much one can DIY until each problem is reseached as it arises. So, for now, I try to assume no DIY, until I am proven otherwise.

[look 171]

Where are you? There are plenty of those out there. Most seller know that when you call or show up, you are more then interested then someone writing to them about the sale. YOu think this is frustrating, try buying a house.

[onewhippedpuppy]

If you are a serious buyer and the seller won't let you drive the car, then there are bigger issues at hand. Show up with cash, tell them if they won't let you drive it then you're gone. If the car isn't even drivable then a PPI probably isn't that important anyway, just assume the worst and bid accordingly. I've had eight Porsches and only had a PPI done on one of them, after you get past the mystique you realize that they are just a car.

[speeder]

First of all, if the car is on eBay, the seller MUST allow inspections prior to bidding. It's clearly stated in the rules, several different places. If he refuses, you can get the auction cancelled. Remind him of this if he balks.

Secondly, the whole $1k ppi talk is just bananas. If you have a modicum of automotive knowledge, you can eliminate most older used cars before you even open a door or hatch. I can eliminate them from 100 yards away sometimes. If a car passes all of the initial sniff tests and drives right, stories line up, etc., then you should be able to find someone local to put it on a rack for 30 minutes and pull wheels off to check brakes, look or leaks, etc.

Do you live in some remote place where there is no one competent to look at a Porsche? If so, I'd seriously reconsider ownership if you do not have the ability/tools/inclination to maintain it yourself. It could be a major drag.

[911SauCy]

PML, if I didn't know any better I would say you are my dad with all the concerns, worries, and what-ifs.

Years back, My dad wanted to buy a '71 Z28 RS Type LT, in an ugly rare brown, just like the one he had at 22. Well, this was right before the "muscle car" bubble began to really ramp up. He thought I was a pain but was trying to push him into a solid #s matching example, knowing what the future held...

His hemming, hawing, and just nit-picky concerns over the most stupid details on 3 very nice examples led to him never buying one...prices were between $14-16k at the time. Now they're north of $35k and he is kicking himself that he never pulled the trigger over small ticket "what-ifs".

If you want a 911 this bad and dont have time for all the other motions, JUDGE THE CRAP OUT OF THE SELLER. Look at everything from his clothing, way he talks/walks, lawn/yard maintenance and overall care of everything he/she owns. This will tell you a lot more than a valve-job on paper a couple years back.

Granted, that stuff is important, but a lot can be told from other details some folks may never consider.

Just remember...each month you don't own one, the prices are slowly ticking up...

Seriously, good luck with the chase but don't give yourself an ulcer from a process that should be enjoyable.

[GH85Carrera]

Cash? Are you suggesting carrying 10 or 15 grand in cash?

I know of two shops that quit doing PPIs. They just tell you no way.

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by speeder

First of all, if the car is on eBay, the seller MUST allow inspections prior to bidding. It's clearly stated in the rules, several different places. If he refuses, you can get the auction cancelled. Remind him of this if he balks.

Secondly, the whole $1k ppi talk is just bananas. If you have a modicum of automotive knowledge, you can eliminate most older used cars before you even open a door or hatch. I can eliminate them from 100 yards away sometimes. If a car passes all of the initial sniff tests and drives right, stories line up, etc., then you should be able to find someone local to put it on a rack for 30 minutes and pull wheels off to check brakes, look or leaks, etc.

Do you live in some remote place where there is no one competent to look at a Porsche? If so, I'd seriously reconsider ownership if you do not have the ability/tools/inclination to maintain it yourself. It could be a major drag.

Speeder's last point here is HUGE!

[Gogar]

Make a little checklist, and take a ride in the car, and stop worrying. Trust yourself and your intuition, and your research. PPI is fine, but it's not everything.

If you buy the car and something breaks, fix it. If you worry about it the whole time it'll ruin the experience anyway.

[speeder]

A good 25 year old 911 should have service records that look like the congressional record. No records or "a valve job a couple years ago" would be one seriously sketchy car. What ever happened to real Porsche owners??

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Cash? Are you suggesting carrying 10 or 15 grand in cash?

Yes. Nobody argues with cash.

Originally Posted by 911SauCy

Speeder's last point here is HUGE!

Yup. If you don't live near a competent shop and aren't mechanically savvy enough to give cars a good once over, you have no business owning a Porsche. Especially an older one. Nothing good will come of it.

[john70t]

Engine condition can be quickly triaged externally:
-Using the multiple functions of a manifold vacuum gauge (i.e. wandering/bouncing/low needle indicates different engine problems),
-Looking for burn marks on dipstick and oil cap,
-Looking for oil leaks underneath,
-Listening for bearing noise with a stethoscope probe,
-Read codes with an OBD2 scanner(there are hundreds of differing quality) $20 Amazon.com: U281 OBD2 OBDII CAN Auto Scanner Code Reader AirBag ABS Reset TooL VW Audi Skoda: MP3 Players & Accessories
-Back pressure tester at the tailpipe, $40 Tool Aid 33600 Exhaust Back Pressure Tester - Amazon.com
-Testing CO $220 Gunson Gastester Exhaust Gas Analyzer Tester | eBay.

Get a Carfax or other and check panel gaps and signs of respraying at the edges of panels.

Look at owner service records.

That's a start. The test tools are reusable or sellable.

[biosurfer1]

depending on where you are finding these cars, I would NEVER EVER show up to a place with that much cash...just asking for trouble. If you can't find a seller willing to work with you, you're not being patient enough. The 911 market isn't always this white hot so if you absolutely have to have one this minute, you need to rethink how much you're willing to spend because it sounds like you want a good deal, a thorough PPI and a seller to put up with all that. If that is the case, join the rest of the 911 buying world.

[911SauCy]

^I have.

Just have a spoon on my belt and my 2 buddies who are cops accompanying me