The Affordable 996 Thread

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Schumi

I propose that a 2003 986 S 3.2L for ~$15K is a better car than an older 1999-2000 996 3.4L for $18-20K.

That would depend what you are looking for in a car. I'm guessing the 996 is more of a grand touring car and the Boxster is more of a pure sports car.

But I haven't driven either so I am just blowing smoke at this point.

[scottmandue]

Define "affordable"

I know some of you will hate this car... but...

Porsche 911 Black | eBay

[dad911]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

I'm betting he doesn't have a clear title for it...

Has a lien per the 'AutoCheck'. AutoCheck looks legit, there must be a better way to deliver a clean title.

[uncle_scott]

I just picked up a 1999 with 120,000 miles for $15,000. It is a lot of car for the money in my opinion, and I didn't let the IMS scare me away. Just get in and drive one. I was convinced almost instantly.

[jwgn777]

I am glad I am out of room for another vehicle. Well maybe I can get a a a. Forget it. Stop showing me cars please.LOL

[targa911S]

Beautiful car Mark!

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

Isn't the IMS a much bigger deal in a 986?

IMS is an issue 1998 though first gen 997's. The LN replacement cost is $1500 - $2000. There are some new lower cost replacements including one from Pelican. Clutches last 50 - 70K miles. Rear tires 10 - 15K. There are a few other weak spots but nothing major. The 996 is pretty DIY friendly and there is a ton of info online. They are actually very reliable. Mine came in about $20k after purchase and IMS/clutch and a couple other minor repairs. I bought her is Seattle and drove home to Dallas. Extremely comfortable on long drive.

Just because I like looking at her...

Thanks Targa!

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

Isn't the IMS a much bigger deal in a 986?

The engine is basically identical, and you can do it in the car. Unlike the older cars you can easily drop just the transmission.

Originally Posted by Brando

This should be named "The Affordable M96 Thread".

They are typically low entry cost with the potential maintenance costs of $1,000 - $30,000

I implore you to find a 911 that doesn't apply to that statement. Except the air cooled cars are no longer cheap. I've owned 5 M96 cars, all had over 50k with their original IMS. If it's a major concern drop $700 for the LN kit and have your clutch replaced, the labor is incremental at that point.

I consider the 996 to be the first real no compromise 911. Nicely optioned, good ride, good MPG, good trunk space, working cruise and A/C, all while being better to drive than nearly every past 911.

[Brando]

That's the thing Matt. The M96 series of 911s and Boxsters are very alluring with their low cost of entry. Equivalent of getting that "inexpensive" 951. This rings true with any marques in the same category; Look at Mercedes-Benz cars and BMWs that are almost 6-10 years old and their values vs. cost of maintenance. Our air-cooled brethren are retaining and gaining value. They are also more DIY friendly and I found maintenance to be less costly than for the M96 series. Even though they are not as technologically advanced as the water-cooled generations. Quite honestly I consider that an apples-to-oranges comparison. The differences between a 993 and 996 are significant and are ultimately two different cars.

I think we have all seen this be true here: It's either a low entry price tag up front with cost of repairs or a higher entry price tag with fewer repairs.

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

The engine is basically identical, and you can do it in the car. Unlike the older cars you can easily drop just the transmission.

I implore you to find a 911 that doesn't apply to that statement. Except the air cooled cars are no longer cheap. I've owned 5 M96 cars, all had over 50k with their original IMS. If it's a major concern drop $700 for the LN kit and have your clutch replaced, the labor is incremental at that point.

I consider the 996 to be the first real no compromise 911. Nicely optioned, good ride, good MPG, good trunk space, working cruise and A/C, all while being better to drive than nearly every past 911.

[Nostril Cheese]

996's and Boxsters are super easy to work on. Get a set of Torx drivers. Water pumps fail at around 100K. Coil packs fail on occasion as well. The other thing I see frequently is Boxster conv. top gearbox failure. The owners usually then try to force the thing closed, breaking more stuff.

The IMS issue is not as widespread as some people would have you believe. The ones I've seen fail were either due to infrequent oil changes or not giving the car a good Italian tune up.

[JavaBrewer]

There are more IMS discussions on the internet than anyone could read in a week. As Matt says for ~$2500 you can get a new clutch and upgraded bearing. Not that expensive when talking Porsche engines - from any era. Water pumps are probably the bigger issue for higher mile cars though the 3.6 motor upgrade lessened the risks of a departed plastic impeller blade creating a catastrophic blockage.

Here's my latest DD. A 2003, 124K miles, ORIGINAL clutch and IMS bearing, new PS2 rubber all round, carbon interior package, interior looks new. Paint is not original and is inferior but car shows no prior accidents physically or through documentation. Got it local for $16K. Not a killer deal but damn I think the car is amazing. The sounds it makes remind me of my '86 Carrera as does the general cockpit. Beyond that this 996 is really many levels better than my '86 in performance and daily comfort. IMO its just as sharp looking too. Maybe because it's black...YMMV.

[450knotOffice]

I know I sound like a broken record on this forum, but I've owned a 2000 996 that's IDENTICAL to the red car in the first post (except mine sits a tiny, tiny bit lower). I've had the car since June of 2006 and have used it as my Daily Driver, and also has seen track use on rare occasions. I got it with 37k miles on it, and it now has 155k miles - 118k miles in 7 1/2 years. It has been very reliable over the long haul and has held up extremely well inside and out.

It is VERY easy to DIY on, for the most part, certainly more DIY friendly than my 1984 Carrera. MY clutch lasted to 110k miles when I decided to replace IT and the IMS bearing (for the LN Engineering version) at the same time. When my mechanic/buddy showed me the original IMS bearing (after pulling it apart for a closer look), it was perfect.

I DID begin to get a whine in the transmission after 120,000 miles, and after a year of listening to it, decided I better do something about it, so I arranged to have my buddy pull it apart and replace all the bearings on the shafts. It was definitely the most expensive repair I've had done to the car - it set me back about $1200 (a shop would certainly charge more) - but I got back a whisper quiet transmission with brand new bearings. By the way, all of the internals were as near perfect as could be. No syncros, gears, etc, needed to be replaced.

The coil packs have been replaced once, as has the Air/Oil separator, water pump, brake disks, serpentine belt (a couple of times on that one), voltage regulator, and engine mounts - all of those items having been done by yours truly in my garage. It truly is an easy car to work on.

It has no rattles or buzzes inside (never has), the seats have held up beautifully after all of these years, the "full leather" interior (a necessary option in my opinion) still looks nearly perfect. The paint still looks pretty damn good, even after all of these years being parked for days on end at LAX airport in the sun.

The car seems to average about 20-22 mpg in my mixed driving and still seems to have all the power it's ever had, even after all of these years. 300 HP in a 3000 pound car is still fun these days.

In a nutshell, I've LOVED that car and plan to drive it for maybe another 50k miles before looking for a 997 Turbo to replace it.



We were on our way to the Sierras for a couple of days camping at Bass Lake with friends:

[M.D. Holloway]

Yup, one shall be mine in the next year or so...

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Brando

That's the thing Matt. The M96 series of 911s and Boxsters are very alluring with their low cost of entry. Equivalent of getting that "inexpensive" 951. This rings true with any marques in the same category; Look at Mercedes-Benz cars and BMWs that are almost 6-10 years old and their values vs. cost of maintenance. Our air-cooled brethren are retaining and gaining value. They are also more DIY friendly and I found maintenance to be less costly than for the M96 series. Even though they are not as technologically advanced as the water-cooled generations. Quite honestly I consider that an apples-to-oranges comparison. The differences between a 993 and 996 are significant and are ultimately two different cars.

I think we have all seen this be true here: It's either a low entry price tag up front with cost of repairs or a higher entry price tag with fewer repairs.

I think you missed my point. ANY Porsche has potentially expensive repairs lurking. The 996 has far less than most, including the 993. Fixing the SAI plugged port issue on a 993 is exponentially more expensive than an IMS. Same story with replacing cracked head studs on an SC or Carrera. As for maintenance, I've been all over 996s as well as air cooled models and would rate the 996 as easier to work on. Very high quality and access is generally very good. Plus you NEVER have to adjust valves. Parts are comparably priced and readily available.

Very true on the value, which is what makes the 996 such a bargain. You can get a low mileage mint condition 996 for $20k. Or you could get an ok SC, a Carrera that needs work, or a wrecked 993. I seriously doubt that good 996s depreciate much more than $15k, they are simply too much car for the money.

[RedBaron]

How common is D-Chunking in the 3.4?

[onewhippedpuppy]

The D-chunk issue was really only semi-common in the early 986. Not saying it hasn't happened, but I can't recall ever seeing it mentioned with the 996. They recalled many of the engines in the suspected faulty lots, and those that are out there would probably have failed by now as it typically happened at low mileages.

There used to be some noise about D chunk on 996 boards, but I haven't seen anything in the last few years.

[M.D. Holloway]

what is DChunk?

[LakeCleElum]

Originally Posted by M.D. Holloway

what is DChunk?

What is a D-chunk?