Unions

[atcjorg]

Originally Posted by speeder

All unions are not created equal. Some do a lot more for their members than others and some are more necessary than others depending on the industry.

I have a simple yes/no question for the union haters: do you believe in the right of workers to use collective bargaining?

agreed, but if you think people shouldn't be allowed to collectively bargain, how about striking?

[lukeh]

I found out how unions worked when I started a factory job to pay for college. First day there I was told to slow down because I was making more widgets per hour than the union had bargained for. If I worked that fast it would make others look slow and that would cause problems. I never understood how a person could get ahead in that environment. I felt like the goal of the union was to get people to do as little work as possible and to keep me from moving up in the company and getting a raise.

Dad worked for the post office and basically confirmed what I told him. My dad said he could get his letters delivered in about 70% of the time we was given. When no one was watching he would fly through his route and use the extra time to cut the lawn and other stuff. When he had some inspector walk along every so often he would have to slow way down and make sure he finished right on time.

I understand union were needed in the old days but now days if an employer was so bad that that he would work you into the ground in dangerous conditions I'd work someplace else. I guess if you work in a mine in the hills with no other jobs around it still might make sense but joining a union as a bag boy seem nuts.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by Rick V

No advice but I detest unions. Nothing more than extortion and a safety net for under performing workers.
We have no place for them in today's economy

This.

So sick and tired of seeing parasites that are slowly killing their hosts.

I hire open shop every chance I can get.

[look 171]

Not only unions, but their members totally drunk their cool aide. Years ago, when I was a young cabinet maker, I did the cabinets in the front office for a dentist who just leased a place in a new building that was getting finish. We didn't know it was built by union workers, but the first floor was done, and rented. The owner should have the right to hire who ever he pleases. As soon as we pulled up on site, the workmen harassed us first by asking if we were union, then threaten to throw us out and destroy our cabinets and slash our tires. it never happened but they did filled our trucks with garbage and spat on our windshields right in front of us. I was just a little two men small time cabinet shop. We really couldn't do anything but take it. We called the cops but they didn't do a thing. I suppose cops are union, so they must back up their labor union brothers? After the first three days of this BS, I never went back until they finished the building completely and were gone for good before I step foot in that hell hole. The poor dentist was held back for two months before he can open his doors for business.

[fred cook]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

He should pay.

The union serves a vital function, ensuring that the boy is properly trained for the important task of sorting and packaging the groceries for the trip home. They work for him to make sure his health and welfare are being properly taken care of by Ralph's, ensure that he is safe on the job, ensure that his benefits are commensurate, and protect him from unjust labor practices from Ralph's management.

He should be thankful that the union is there to look out for his best interests.

What kind of whacky weed have you been smoking? Unions are a total rip off! They served a purpose 100 years ago, but should go the way of the Carrier Pidgeon and the Mastadon.

[Chocaholic]

Originally Posted by atcjorg

I was a union member for 25.5 years and was thankful we had one. I worked for an agency that has a terrible reputation for personnel abuses, and they earned it. Their style of management for a good portion of it was "screw em we'll do what we want let em griev it!" Knowing full well what they were doing was wrong but expedient. You need a union to help be successful. Your probably thinking omg who is this liberal? you'd be wrong. The FAA has more failed projects and overruns than probably any other agency why? Because they think they know what controllers need to do the job without asking one. They think because they worked in some podunk airport 20 years ago
(which they probably sucked at) they know all. There is a lot more collaboration these days but that usually changes with the administration and long term projects suffer the start and stop overruns every time. Yes the union fights for wages and benefits and working conditions. My last facility had approx 250 bue's ( bargaining unit employees) and we had 98% VOLUNTARY PARTICIPATION, this is not cut along political lines, these are relatively bright people, they understand the value of and need for a union.

Just curious....how long ago was this? Was there an HR department accessible to employees?

[mreid]

I led collective bargaining for a major steel company with the USW for 10 years. I will spare you my horror stories of union shenanigans. What I will share is that the USW is the reason steel failed in this country and moved overseas. We had a union and a non-union location. The non-union location had consistently twice the productivity, better pay,and better benefits. They earned it and it was a pleasure working at that location vs. any of the union shops. I left when a large steel company purchased the business and allowed the union BS pattern bargain into the company turning the non-union shop union. Two years later, they were bankrupt and sold overseas. My meager pension was raped by the union and is now owned my the PBGC. Anyone who feels that a union adds any value at all is living is the far distant past.

[flyenby]

If people only knew what is happening at the Shipping Ports on the West Coast with unions. You would totally disgusted

[Rick V]

Originally Posted by mreid

I led collective bargaining for a major steel company with the USW for 10 years. I will spare you my horror stories of union shenanigans. What I will share is that the USW is the reason steel failed in this country and moved overseas. We had a union and a non-union location. The non-union location had consistently twice the productivity, better pay,and better benefits. They earned it and it was a pleasure working at that location vs. any of the union shops. I left when a large steel company purchased the business and allowed the union BS pattern bargain into the company turning the non-union shop union. Two years later, they were bankrupt and sold overseas. My meager pension was raped by the union and is now owned my the PBGC. Anyone who feels that a union adds any value at all is living is the far distant past.

Replace steel with auto and the story is the same

[mikesride]

We de-certified our last union shop within the company two years ago. As for collective agreements I DON'T SUPPORT such "rights". Pay ME what I am worth or I will leave and find a better income source, do the same to the next guy. It works out very well for me. Protecting some slacker half wit does not add to the profitability of any company or organization.
The union tried bashing our company in the media very hard at the time....Our president smiled at the cameras and said something like." They can organize again whenever they want to, its within their legal rights to do so, but these guys just wanted to have the same privileges and advantages as the rest of the company enjoys. Instead of asking me why they dissolved, as some of them."

[black73]

Originally Posted by Nostril Cheese

We dont have people falling into machines anymore. Unions are corrupt.

OSHA investigating fatal industrial accident in West Allis - JSOnline

Industrial accident strikes Texas again, many killed - Economic Times

NATIONAL CENSUS OF FATAL OCCUPATIONAL INJURIES IN 2012
(PRELIMINARY RESULTS)
A preliminary total of 4,383 fatal work injuries were recorded in the United States in 2012, down from a revised count of 4,693 fatal work injuries in 2011, according to results from the Census of Fatal
Occupational Injuries (CFOI) conducted by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf

[onewhippedpuppy]

No advice but I detest unions. Nothing more than extortion and a safety net for under performing workers.

We have no place for them in today's economy

Worth quoting again. And Denis, collective bargaining is BS. It serves to decrease the performance and motivation of your top talent by peer pressure and protect your poor performers. I expect to succeed or fail based on my own merits. This is based on years in a union industrial setting, what a freaking joke.

[black73]

Originally Posted by lukeh

.

When no one was watching he would fly through his route and use the extra time to cut the lawn and other stuff.

AWOL? That's an honorable way to deal with the situation, isn't it?

[Baz]

Unions helped make our great country the leading industrial giant we are today.

Eh?

[black73]

Originally Posted by Rick V

No advice but I detest unions. Nothing more than extortion and a safety net for under performing workers.
We have no place for them in today's economy

So what do you recommend we do with "under performing workers"?
Welfare? Food stamps? Unemployment checks? Execution?

[black73]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Worth quoting again. And Denis, collective bargaining is BS. It serves to decrease the performance and motivation of your top talent by peer pressure and protect your poor performers. I expect to succeed or fail based on my own merits. This is based on years in a union industrial setting, what a freaking joke.

Yeah it's just awful when brown nosers have to work for the same pay as honorable people.

[Rick V]

Originally Posted by black73

So what do you recommend we do with "under performing workers"?
Welfare? Food stamps? Unemployment checks? Execution?

They lose the job. I see no reason to pay someone who doesn't earn it/hack it/ deserve it.
If I don't do my job I will be looking for a new one, why should someone who pays some union dues be any different than me? Are they better? are they more privileged? No, they are just protected by money.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by Rick V

Replace steel with auto and the story is the same

You should read the book "A Savage Factory" by Robert J. Dewar to get a real insight on the decline of the US auto industry. The UAW is a big part of that decline.

[Rick V]

That is why I made my comment

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by Rick V

That is why I made my comment

I know, I was bolstering your argument.

I was in exactly the same boat as motions kid. Forced to join a union as a bagboy making squat for money. (And for fun, I recently tried to find out what my pension was worth. SURPRISE! 35 years later, no record of my existence with the AFLCIO!)