Common Notion: Racking a Pump 12 Gauge Will Scare Off a Bad Guy.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

I had the misfortune 2 weeks ago to defend my family/home from a perp trying to break/kick my front door down at 2 in the morning. It is a VERY long story, but the relevant part to this thread is that I drew my handgun on this piece of human debris through a narrow sidelite alongside the door. When he saw the gun (and my dog who is a large doberman mix), he began sobbing 'don't shoot me man, I have kids at home!' He curled up in a fetal position on my front porch and was apprehended by law enforcement shortly thereafter. Later he squirmed away from them and a chase ensued with him eventually being tazed 3-4 times in my yard - all this during a severe ice storm. I live in a very quiet, low-crime area. It proved to me that your gun(s) should always be in a place where it is quickly accessible to you, loaded, and ready to fire (mine always are). There was very little time to think, much less unlock and load a weapon.

Wow, well done. Perfectly managed on your part.

My Mom had some try to break into her farm house and the sound of a .22 having the bolt action worked was enough to have him hiding in the barn until the police arrived.

[Nostril Cheese]

My sister was once play fighting with her new BF in the front yard. Our Blue Heeler saw this, realized she couldnt get out the front door (closed), so she ran into the kitchen, jumped up to the window over the sink in one leap, broke the screen off the window, ran outside and cornered the guy.

They are powerful and loyal companions.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I understand the reasoning behind the shotgun, though I've seen some tests online that make me question the common "aim and spray with buckshot" logic. If you can't hit your target with a handgun, you very well may miss it with the shotgun as well.

[CurtEgerer]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Curt, that is scary stuff. Glad everything ended up ok.

Thanks. Like you said, it's not a position anyone wants to be in. This was not a burglar trying to quietly open the door - he was violently trying to kick it in, knowing we were home (drugs, drunk, both, who knows?). Had he been successful in knocking the door down, he would have been shot in front of my 2 daughters. Not good. I'm still a bit jumpy every time I see a shadow move outside the window at night. The only positive is I am even better prepared should anything similar happen in the future.

On a practical note, the handgun did work better than a shotgun in this particular situation. Why? I was able to have the gun in one hand and the phone talking to 911 in the other. It would be difficult to one-hand a shotgun.

[mattdavis11]

Dogs are great guards. The last apartment I was living in proved my lab to be a protector. One morning after we went for our walk, I forgot to lock the front door. As I was in the shower, she bolted into the bathroom and began to bark and whine. All I could do was yell get the fuch out! I thought I was yelling at the dog, until I heard the front door close.

She's a big baby, but knows when something is wrong.

[crownarch]

Carpets and wallboard are cheaply replaceable whereas I and my family members are not. Biggest problem would be the disturbing memories that one would never really forget if ever. For me, it is still a pump shotgun as in close quarters as you cannot got wrong. You can shoot from the hip, don't need to really aim but, just point and pump. Yes, the adrenalin would be flowing by the gallon but, would occur whether you had a knife, rubber band or anything else you consider to be a weapon.

[Joeaksa]

Agree with the idea of racking the pump shotgun but really surprised that no one has mentioned an alarm?

I have had at least one on my house for the last 12 years and we live in a great area. Friends of mine have tripped it from time to time (while I was away) and the cops show up in about 2.5 minutes... and the siren wailing at the 1 minute point could wake the dead...

Another alternative is to put bird or snake shot in the chamber of a pistol and use that for the first round. It would not kill someone but sure get their attention... then follow up the rest with hollow points...

[legion]

It's really too bad that it's my Saiga that I keep ready and those that challenge my home will get no such warning. Thinking about the "4 thugs" scenario, I'd much rather have the 20 round drum (full of slug/buckshot combo rounds) than the 5 rounds my 870 would provide.

[Head416]

I understand the reasoning behind the shotgun, though I've seen some tests online that make me question the common "aim and spray with buckshot" logic. If you can't hit your target with a handgun, you very well may miss it with the shotgun as well.

The main advantage is the site radius of a shotgun vs handgun. With a handgun a common flinch can pull your shot off target. Aim your shotgun at a door and imagine what kind of flinch it would take to pull your shot completely off target.

The common reference I always remember is that in 30' your shotgun pattern won't be any larger than a softball.

You still have to aim, but it's a lot easier to aim a shotgun.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Nostril Cheese

My sister was once play fighting with her new BF in the front yard. Our Blue Heeler saw this, realized she couldn't get out the front door (closed), so she ran into the kitchen, jumped up to the window over the sink in one leap, broke the screen off the window, ran outside and cornered the guy.

They are powerful and loyal companions.

They are so smart it's unbelievable! And LOUD! Good story Nostril.

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Agree with the idea of racking the pump shotgun but really surprised that no one has mentioned an alarm?

I have had at least one on my house for the last 12 years and we live in a great area. Friends of mine have tripped it from time to time (while I was away) and the cops show up in about 2.5 minutes... and the siren wailing at the 1 minute point could wake the dead...

Another alternative is to put bird or snake shot in the chamber of a pistol and use that for the first round. It would not kill someone but sure get their attention... then follow up the rest with hollow points...

Joe - you are on the second page of the thread. Go back to page one and see if an "alarm" is mentioned.

[Rick Lee]

I just got ADT a few weeks ago and the doors chime when opened. I don't sleep very deeply and any kind of noise in the night would have me up instantly. Last night the pool pump turning on at 4am made me jump. That said, I would never shoot to wound an intruder. Anyone who breaks into the house shall be assumed to intend to do grave bodily harm or death to Mrs. Lee or myself. And besides, why let the cops hear someone else's side of the story?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

Thanks. Like you said, it's not a position anyone wants to be in. This was not a burglar trying to quietly open the door - he was violently trying to kick it in, knowing we were home (drugs, drunk, both, who knows?). Had he been successful in knocking the door down, he would have been shot in front of my 2 daughters. Not good. I'm still a bit jumpy every time I see a shadow move outside the window at night. The only positive is I am even better prepared should anything similar happen in the future.

On a practical note, the handgun did work better than a shotgun in this particular situation. Why? I was able to have the gun in one hand and the phone talking to 911 in the other. It would be difficult to one-hand a shotgun.

Holy crap, Curt - I'm sure glad you and your family came out of this unscathed. Pretty scary stuff...

As for the rest of you, we have discussed this shotgun vs. handgun, racking the slide on a shotgun to intimidate, and other such b.s. on this forum ad nauseam. Listen to Curt's real world experience - he would have been at somewhat of a disadvantage with a shotgun.

Add to his observation concerning how handy it was to use his cell:

The shotgun is far more easily taken away or redirected.
The shotgun is unwieldily in the narrow confines of a hallway.
The shotgun is difficult to navigate doorways with, open or closed.
The shotgun pattern will not open up sufficiently at indoor distances to relieve you of aiming it.
The pistol grip shotgun is almost impossible to aim, and recoils severely enough to be a problem for some.

And, lastly, if you are racking a round into the chamber, you are behind the curve time-wise and you are one round down. Forget what you see in the movies - if you insist on having a shotgun loaded for home defense, make sure it has one chambered. Almost guaranteed if you have to rack one you will forget when you are really scared, or worse yet, you will keep racking it until it is empty. Don't laugh - stories are legion in the hunting world of guys, faced with the buck of a lifetime, who stood there and cycled their rifles until they were empty, ejecting loaded rounds onto the ground next to them, then wondering why it didn't drop. And that's just the excitement of a big deer...

[grendiers]

'I've pondered something similar. Say you hear someone breaking in and can gather your weapon and take a defensive stance before an actual confrontation.'

This just 'kills' me! As one semi-intelligent poster said, before you're even ready to take a shot, your willys will be sound asleep. Guess what, the perp will have a knife to your throat while you fart at the same time. Love the gun-nut stuff though, 'I'll do this, I'll do that, and eff law enforcement'. Good luck with that while you think of that laying in a pool of blood. Pffffffft!

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by grendiers

'I've pondered something similar. Say you hear someone breaking in and can gather your weapon and take a defensive stance before an actual confrontation.'

This just 'kills' me! As one semi-intelligent poster said, before you're even ready to take a shot, your willys will be sound asleep. Guess what, the perp will have a knife to your throat while you fart at the same time. Love the gun-nut stuff though, 'I'll do this, I'll do that, and eff law enforcement'. Good luck with that while you think of that laying in a pool of blood. Pffffffft!

You are, of course, free to exercise your own discretion on this matter where you and you loved ones are concerned. That is your right. As long as you recognize and acknowledge that I have that same right, and that no one has any right whatsoever to interfere with either one of us in this regard, we will get along just fine.

The sheer number of American citizens that successfully defend themselves and/or a loved one every year, with a firearm, is difficult to ignore. Unless, of course, one edges more towards the "semi" than the "intelligent" side.

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Btw, you guys are reminding me why my next purchase needs to be a shotgun.

Yes for sure you need to get a shotgun. They are not nearly as intimidating to shoot as they are made out to be. Greatly pleasing in a primal sort of way. My son loves to shoot 3" magnum slugs - my shoulder could only manage 2 rounds. They make low recoil 00 buck rounds that are very shooter friendly. Do some pattern shots with a 12 gauge. I can't really imagine a better home defense weapon. Years worth of reading on ammo. I'm of the mindset that birdshot would be devastating against a person - in the face and eyes would really suck. But in a HD situation if I'm going to use a firearm that means someone is on the verge of death - so OO buck and slugs in order is what I have setup.

This year we moved from a well lighted street in a populated area to the exact opposite. The last thing I ever want to happen is be forced to use a firearm in a home defense situation. Good home lighting, locks, and alarm will hopefully be enough. If not then I have my options in place but still secure.

So much for the scary talk. Matt - go get yourself a proper pump 12 gauge. Loads of fun to shoot. Bring lots of targets!

Here is an old video of Zack shooing regular slugs at some 2L soda bottles. A cheap red dot sight was mounted and yes hokey but made it incredibly easy to put the slugs on target. The last target was an old baseball which he did not hit.

[McLovin]

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Btw, you guys are reminding me why my next purchase needs to be a shotgun.

Joe Biden told it like it is!

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by grendiers

'I've pondered something similar. Say you hear someone breaking in and can gather your weapon and take a defensive stance before an actual confrontation.'

This just 'kills' me! As one semi-intelligent poster said, before you're even ready to take a shot, your willys will be sound asleep. Guess what, the perp will have a knife to your throat while you fart at the same time. Love the gun-nut stuff though, 'I'll do this, I'll do that, and eff law enforcement'. Good luck with that while you think of that laying in a pool of blood. Pffffffft!

I'd like to hear your alternative. Cell phone in hand with 911, police 15-20 minutes away? Sorry, but I value my life and the lives of my family. At least the "gun nut" has a fighting chance.

[aigel]

IMHO racking a shotgun is a good idea for deterrence. I don't buy the "don't give away your position" argument. I don't think there are many occasions where someone comes to you home, ready to kill you. At least in any place that I'd ever live in. Usually someone will come to your home thinking nobody is home. All they need to know is that you are home and armed, and they will bail.

With a legal length barrel (18 inches or more), a shotgun does not spread significantly inside home type distances. You still have to aim, but easily doable from the hip at those distances. That said, it would be my preferred home defense weapon, as I handle a shot gun most frequently while hunting and am very familiar with its operation.

I would never have a loaded gun in my house, leave alone with a chambered round! Especially with a young family, chances of someone getting hurt unintentionally are much higher than problems from a violent break in and being slow to get the gun ready. My first line of defense are a couple sets of canine teeth. They may not be completely foolproof, but at least they don't bite the family accidentally ...

Cheers,

G

[gt350mike]

Originally Posted by grendiers

'I've pondered something similar. Say you hear someone breaking in and can gather your weapon and take a defensive stance before an actual confrontation.'

This just 'kills' me! As one semi-intelligent poster said, before you're even ready to take a shot, your willys will be sound asleep. Guess what, the perp will have a knife to your throat while you fart at the same time. Love the gun-nut stuff though, 'I'll do this, I'll do that, and eff law enforcement'. Good luck with that while you think of that laying in a pool of blood. Pffffffft!

I beg to differ. Several years ago, I recall three separate incidents where the would-be robber was shot and killed by the homeowner w/in a span of two weeks and all were within a 3 or 4 mile radius. A homeowner awakened in the middle of the night may be disoriented for moment or two, but fear works faster than a six pack of Red Bull. Unless the thug knows the layout of the home and his main objective is to kill first, my bet is with the homeowner with the home field advantage.