Really? Fire fighter handcuffed by CHP DURING an accident call?

[aigel]

Mandatory drug testing for cops and firemen - specifically for hormones.

G

[GWN7]

This happens every now and again. A Fire Captain was awarded $18,000 in damages when he was arrested for no reason. They judge absolved the city and the police dept for any damages and laid it all on the officer. Members of the jury felt sorry for the cop or the award would have been higher. It will be interesting to hear what the CHP's media realise will be.

Cop Arrests Fireman Giving Aid - Jury Awards $18k (video) >> Four Winds 10 - Truth Winds

Juror Betsy Vennemann said after the verdict, "We wanted to make a statement that this kind of behavior will not be tolerated."



Capt. David Wilson won $7,500 in compensatory damages and $10,000 in punitive damages. Jurors, including a nun, said they went easy on the defendant, Officer Todd Greeves, because he has a family and they weren't sure who would pay the bill.



Wilson testified that the Robertson Fire Protection District truck was parked in a way to protect rescuers working to free a victim from wreckage along Interstate 270 at McDonnell Boulevard.



Greeves ordered that the truck be moved to accommodate passing traffic and arrested Wilson for ignoring him. Wilson was released after 23 minutes and never charged. He sued, claiming civil rights violations that opened him to anxiety and humiliation.



Greeves told the court the truck was creating a hazard and not adding to safety at the scene.



Jurors interviewed after the verdict said their feeling about Greeves was reinforced during the punitive phase of the trial, when they heard there had been other complaints about him. An internal affairs investigation determined that Greeves used excessive force in a 2002 arrest, court documents show, and was the subject of several other complaints.



Before Wednesday's deliberations, U.S. Magistrate Judge Mary Ann Medler had already ruled that Greeves had no probable cause to arrest Wilson, who she said had state law on his side. She also dismissed the city of Hazelwood as a defendant.



"The whole police and fire communities have been watching this case," said Bevis Schock, one of Wilson's lawyers. "Everybody wanted to know who controls the fire scene."



Greeves' lawyer, Peter Dunne, said he was disappointed in the verdict and the discussion of the other complaints against Greeves. Dunne also said it was unfair to suggest that Greeves did not care about the firefighters' safety.



Dunne said that the city's insurance would not pay for the costs and that the issue is "complicated." Schock said he thinks the insurance probably would pay the compensatory damages, and possibly the punitive. Also at issue is payment of unspecified lawyers' fees.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by BlueSkyJaunte

I see some slow responses to "officer down" calls in the future.

doubtful to me, they will do their jobs, no matter what

this incident further reinforces my opinion of LEOs

[glewis80SC]

He spotted the apparatus for scene safety normal SOP's. In California CHP have the authority on all freeway incidents, they usually allow us to do our thing but we do run into those that want to express their authority. A lot of them do have a hard on to keep traffic going even at the risk to them and us.
We had an incidents several years ago where we responded to a CHP officer struck by oncoming traffic, we spotted for safety, as we were loading the patient a lady plowed into the back of the fire engine killing the passenger in her car, she would have killed the guys loading the pt if the engine was not there.
Looks like the CHP guys was trying to show who was boss, I would not have moved it either.

[Nostril Cheese]

This surprises me. Every encounter I've ever had with CHP has been pleasant and helpful.

[widgeon13]

Originally Posted by t-tom

I'd told the cop to go pound sand. The very first thing they teach you in EMT/ Paramedic class is scene safety. When you take your state EMT oral test its an Automatic fail if you don't say scene safe at the very start before you do anything else. When I Worked for the fire department the very first thing they trained us to to do with the truck, use it as a barrier between the scene and traffic. If you don't need to then don't block traffic but if you do not feel safe working at the scene then use the truck.

Yep, universal strategy for safety. Cop should get his zzz kicked.

[stomachmonkey]

That cop would hate it around here.

SOP is to roll the police, ambulance and a pumper / engine for pretty much every accident.

Pumpers roll whether there is a fire or not and are always used to block traffic.

They'll shut down every lane if they feel they need to for as long as they feel they need through traffic be damned.

Frustrating? If you are the one stuck in traffic yes it is. Still better than being the focus of why they are there.

If you are on a multi lane highway and a cop has someone pulled over you are legally required to switch lanes so to leave an empty lane between your vehicle and the officer.

[nostatic]

As luck would have it, I toured LA County Fire dispatch center today and brought up this incident with a few of the Captains. They kind of laughed it off saying, "typical CHP," and said that their first concern is safety while tending to victims. As such, they park the vehicle with that in mind. In a perfect world both agencies work together but sometimes they have somewhat conflicting goals. In this case, I think CHP will come out with a black eye.

[MMARSH]

when it comes to traffic, The CHP are kinda anal.....Personally, I love it when the big red truck shows up to block traffic. much more visible then a car and especially a motor....

[Jeff Higgins]

And this was how this CHP treated another emergency responder, at what looked to be a fairly serious accident scene, when he knew cameras were rolling. When he knew the guy had some fairly important business to attend to. He simply could not put his ego aside long enough to think clearly about the situation - all he could think about was that the other guy didn't do what he said. No regard whatsoever for anything else. Imagine how it must go for the average Joe, should he have the audacity to question this cop.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

And this was how this CHP treated another emergency responder, at what looked to be a fairly serious accident scene, when he knew cameras were rolling. When he knew the guy had some fairly important business to attend to. He simply could not put his ego aside long enough to think clearly about the situation - all he could think about was that the other guy didn't do what he said. No regard whatsoever for anything else. Imagine how it must go for the average Joe, should he have the audacity to question this cop.

^This^

And there's thousands of cops that are just as bad or worse out there.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by stealthn

It looked to me the truck was parked in a way to prevent more accidents or injuries to the FD, which makes perfect sense to me. But to arrest a guy; just ask for the captain an deal with it.

It now sounds like the fire truck could have been blocking an ambulance.

Whatever....they should have communicated better instead of butting heads.

In this situation it's obvious there was an "I" in the word "TEAM".

[Baz]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

That cop would hate it around here.

SOP is to roll the police, ambulance and a pumper / engine for pretty much every accident.

Pumpers roll whether there is a fire or not and are always used to block traffic.

They'll shut down every lane if they feel they need to for as long as they feel they need through traffic be damned.

Frustrating? If you are the one stuck in traffic yes it is. Still better than being the focus of why they are there.

If you are on a multi lane highway and a cop has someone pulled over you are legally required to switch lanes so to leave an empty lane between your vehicle and the officer.

Same here in Florida.

No one gives a rat's azz about holding up traffic.

I stay clear of I-4 as much as possible because of this - you should see how many traffic jams are in the news around here because of accidents. Sometimes it takes more than half a day before lanes are opened after a wreck.

[Danimal16]

Back in 1985 in the aftermath of a Hurricane in CT our CB Unit was heading out to remove debris in family housing at the Sub Base in Groton. A CT Highway patrol was blocking our convoy, until I ordered our lead 5 ton to shove him out of the way. Hell we had our orders, and they had nothing to do with stupid. Plus we were better armed.

[Baz]

I heard a story about the original policy/procedure of rolling out a fire truck along with an ambulance every time there is an accident.

Something about maintaining a minimum number of crew plus emergency vehicles round the clock and how (because it is written into code) a city or county must write this into their annual budget.

Not sure if it was a union deal or what - maybe originated in South Carolina (?)

Anyone know?

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

And this was how this CHP treated another emergency responder, at what looked to be a fairly serious accident scene, when he knew cameras were rolling. When he knew the guy had some fairly important business to attend to. He simply could not put his ego aside long enough to think clearly about the situation - all he could think about was that the other guy didn't do what he said. No regard whatsoever for anything else. Imagine how it must go for the average Joe, should he have the audacity to question this cop.

That's what ends up on surreptitious cell phone video. The actions cops take when they think they are off-camera. Some pretty brutal stuff goes on.

Thing is, cops almost always get away with it, even if their victim dies (Kelly Thomas, in Fullerton is a recent example). There is an appetite among some in society for fierce authoritarian control -- even to the point of lethal force -- for even mildly aberrant behavior. That attitude is a mystery to me.

[nostatic]

Listen To The Radio Calls That Led To A CHP Officer Handcuffing A Firefighter: LAist

gets mentioned around 6:00 or so

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by MMARSH

when it comes to traffic, The CHP are kinda anal.....Personally, I love it when the big red truck shows up to block traffic. much more visible then a car and especially a motor....

this, and the average vehicle is not going to knock big red into you either, saw a guy who had a crown vic knock the end of his foot off, lucky he saw it coming

Originally Posted by widebody911

^This^

And there's thousands of cops that are just as bad or worse out there.

^this too^ used to be just a few bad apples, or that is certainly how it appears

I wish we had a tape of the CHP supervisor talking to the FD Captain or whatever he is.

[rusnak]

So the CHP wanted the fire guys to just drive away? Or to not use the fire truck it to provide a safety zone. Not sure what to think, other than the CHP guy is too stupid to use his car to block the injured person from oncoming traffic.

[LakeCleElum]

Seen it happen where fire parked their rig in a dangerous spot on the freeway and wouldn't move it. Ego issue for sure