What would the US be like if we didn't enter WW2

[porwolf]

Interesting alternative take on WWII by non other than Pat Buchanan:

Churchill, Hitler, and "The Unnecessary War": How Britain Lost Its Empire and the West Lost the World: Patrick J. Buchanan: 9780307405166: Amazon.com: Books

Among the British and Churchillian errors were:
• The secret decision of a tiny cabal in the inner Cabinet in 1906 to take Britain straight to war against Germany, should she invade France
• The vengeful Treaty of Versailles that mutilated Germany, leaving her bitter, betrayed, and receptive to the appeal of Adolf Hitler
• Britain’s capitulation, at Churchill’s urging, to American pressure to sever the Anglo-Japanese alliance, insulting and isolating Japan, pushing her onto the path of militarism and conquest
• The greatest mistake in British history: the unsolicited war guarantee to Poland of March 1939, ensuring the Second World War

[GH85Carrera]

I received this via email the other day. This is proported to be factual but since it came via email I give take it with a huge pile of salt.

Twelve Odd WWII Facts

You might enjoy this from Col D. G. Swinford, USMC, Retired and a
history buff. You would really have to dig deep to get this kind of
ringside seat to history.


1. The first German serviceman killed in WW II was killed by the
Japanese (China, 1937), The first American serviceman killed was
killed by the Russians (Finland 1940); The highest ranking American
killed was Lt Gen Lesley McNair, killed by the US Army Air Corps.


2. The youngest US serviceman was 12 years old: Calvin Graham, USN. He
was wounded and given a Dishonorable Discharge for lying about his
age. His benefits were later restored by Act of Congress.


3. At the time of Pearl Harbor, the top US Navy command was called
CINCUS (pronounced 'sink us'); The shoulder patch of the US Army's
45th Infantry division was the swastika. Hitler's private train was
named 'Amerika.' All three were soon changed for PR purposes.


4. More US servicemen died in the Air Corps than the Marine Corps.
While completing the required 30 missions, an airman's chance of being
killed was 71%.


5. Generally speaking, there was no such thing as an average fighter
pilot. You were either an ace or a target. For instance, Japanese Ace
Hiroyoshi Nishizawa shot down over 80 planes. He died while a
passenger on a cargo plane.


6. It was a common practice on fighter planes to load every 5th round
with a tracer round to aid in aiming. This was a big mistake. Tracers
had different ballistics so (at long range), if your tracers were
hitting the target 80% of your rounds were missing. Worse yet,
tracers instantly told your enemy he was under fire and from which
direction. Worst of all was the practice of loading a string of
tracers at the end of the belt to tell you that you were out of ammo.
This was definitely not something you wanted to tell the enemy. Units
that stopped using tracers saw their success rate nearly double and
their loss rate go down.


7. When allied armies reached the Rhine, the first thing men did was
pee in it. This was pretty universal from the lowest private to
Winston Churchill (who made a big show of it) and Gen. Patton (who had
himself photographed in the act).


8. German ME-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City, but
they decided it wasn't worth the effort.


9. German submarine U-120 was sunk by a malfunctioning toilet.


10. Among the first 'Germans' captured at Normandy were several
Koreans. They had been forced to fight for the Japanese Army until
they were captured by the Russians and forced to fight for the Russian
Army until they were captured by the Germans and forced to fight for
the German Army until they were captured by the US Army.


11. Following a massive naval bombardment, 35,000 United States and
Canadian troops stormed ashore at Kiska, in the Aleutian Islands. 21
troops were killed in the assault on the island... It could have been
worse if there had actually been any Japanese on the island.


12. The last marine killed in WW2 was killed by a can of spam. He was
on the ground as a POW in Japan when rescue flights dropping food and
supplies came over, The package came apart in the air and a stray can
of spam hit him and killed him.

[flipper35]

I thought it was 25 missions?

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

8. German ME-264 bombers were capable of bombing New York City, but
they decided it wasn't worth the effort.

Not exactly true.


The massive Messerschmitt Me 264 long-range bomber was cancelled on September 23rd, 1944 - this after three were constructed.
Messerschmitt Me 264 Amerika (America) - Long-Range Bomber / Reconnaissance / Maritime Patrol Aircraft - History, Specs and Pictures - Military Aircraft

Only one flew...................I had never read of the aircraft before.

More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_264

The high wing loading led to performance problems across the whole flight envelope, in particular bad climb performance, loss of maneuverability, and in-flight stability, and the need for high take-off and landing speeds.

[lane912]

my uncle died at the end of the war off the coast of Argentina. his ship was torpedoed; knocking a life boat loose, and hitting my great uncle Lane on the head.
I am his namesake and visit his grave each memorial day-

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by lane912

my uncle died at the end of the war off the coast of Argentina. his ship was torpedoed; knocking a life boat loose, and hitting my great uncle Lane on the head.
I am his namesake and visit his grave each memorial day-

Might have been one of these two U-Boats.

German U-boats that surrendered at the end of the War - Fates - uboat.net

U-977 VIIC 17 Aug 1945 Mar del Plata, Argentina

U-530 IXC/40 10 Jul 1945 Mar del Plata, Argentina

Some background:
http://www.u-boot-archiv-cuxhaven.de/lang1/u_977.html

Looks as though the u-boats above elected to surrender in Argentina after the fall, and perhaps were not the Antarctic base boats operating off the Argentinean coast.

[porwolf]

Originally Posted by kach22i

Not exactly true.


The massive Messerschmitt Me 264 long-range bomber was cancelled on September 23rd, 1944 - this after three were constructed.
Messerschmitt Me 264 Amerika (America) - Long-Range Bomber / Reconnaissance / Maritime Patrol Aircraft - History, Specs and Pictures - Military Aircraft
Only one flew...................I had never read of the aircraft before.

More here:
Messerschmitt Me 264 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While the Me 264 never was a real possibility to deliver bombs from Germany to New York, Germany definitely had the potential capability since1938 to fly large planes directly New York. Lufthansa started regular, no-stop, pasenger service between Berlin and New York in 1938! The plane was the Focke-Wolf 200. Several hundred were built and they served as military planes in WW2. So, technically, Hitler had the capability to drop a nuclear bomb on New York, if he had one.



Focke-Wulf Fw 200 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[kach22i]

The Condor had it's own issues, still better than the Me 264 from what I've been reading.

Focke-Wulf Fw 200 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The extra weight introduced by its military fitments meant that a number of early Fw 200 aircraft broke up on landing, a problem that was never entirely solved.

Germany never really had a decent heavy bomber.

[snbush67]

The nazis would have won and controlled the gulf, and the oil. There probably wouldn't be a jihad going on right now.

[aigel]

If your aunt had balls, she would be your uncle.

I don't like this type of speculation. It is like trying to predict the weather. Too many variables. Who knows.

Personally, I would not exist in the same genetic makeup. Some of my ancestors would not have lived to reproduce. So I am glad it went the way it did and I am not going to speculate how I would exist with different genes. Would I be the same person?

G

[Steve Carlton]

I'm just glad Edith Keeler died in that traffic accident.

[tabs]

And Schultz would be the Gauleiter of Zincinnati

[Joe Bob]

Reading a WEB Griffin on the Nazi Operation Phoenix. Subs taking the higher ups and war booty to Argentina.

[Por_sha911]

Without the added pressures of American advancements in technology and added money/productivity of American war machine manufacturing, the axis would have won the war. American troops was not as crucial but this country would not have invested the time, money and materials if we didn't have our boys over there. Just think what would have happened if Germany developed the bomb before we did. To say that Germany would have lost anyway is wishful thinking and naive.

[porwolf]

Intersting documentary of what the Luftwaffe would have had in their arsenal if it were still flying in 1946:

[74-911]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Without the added pressures of American advancements in technology and added money/productivity of American war machine manufacturing, the axis would have won the war. American troops was not as crucial but this country would not have invested the time, money and materials if we didn't have our boys over there. Just think what would have happened if Germany developed the bomb before we did. To say that Germany would have lost anyway is wishful thinking and naive.

Germany effectively lost the war between Dec 6, 1941 and the fall of 1942, long before the US entry into the war had any effects on the war in Europe. The only thing which might have altered the outcome would be Germany developing and using nuclear weapons on the Eastern front and there is no guarantee they would have developed them.

The Russian counter-offensive launched on Dec. 6, 1942 drove the Germans from the suburbs of Moscow back several hundred miles in the dead of one of the coldest Russian winters on record and ended any chance the Germans had of taking Moscow. The slaughter of the German 6th Army at Stalingrad in late 1942 sealed their fate... and Kursk in 1943 effectively ended the Wehrmacht's ability to launch any major offensives. All this long before the US was making any significant contribution to the ETO.

As Churchill stated after the war, it was the Russian army that tore the guts out of the Wehrmacht.

[Por_sha911]

German scientists were close to completing the bomb. A completed bomb would have been a game changer.

[74-911]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

German scientists were close to completing the bomb. A completed bomb would have been a game changer.

A completed bomb would definitely have been a game changer. This is a good synopsis of where the Germans really were re: a nuclear weapon.

"How close were the Nazis to developing an atomic bomb? The truth is that National Socialist Germany could not possibly have built a weapon like the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima or Nagasaki. This was not because the country lacked the scientists, resources, or will, but rather because its leaders did not really try."

For the full article: NOVA | Nazis and the Bomb

[porwolf]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

German scientists were close to completing the bomb. A completed bomb would have been a game changer.

Not so. The Germans never attempted to build a nuclar bomb. They only attempted to build a nuclear power plant. Power was important for the war economy. The German scientists knew the bomb would require enormeous resources and they were in short supply during the war. A nuclear power plant requires a lot fewer resources and, at the time, was a much more realistic goal to achieve.

[Arizona_928]

We would still be in the depression. War = jobs.