VW Passat TDI Warranty Issue

[aigel]

Yes, Steve is correct, this is a lemon law case, if it exists in his jurisdiction.

I have a 11 Golf TDI w/o a hickup to date (46k). I will not buy a new one though, made in Mexico in 2015. Mine still is made in Wolfsburg from 70% Kraut parts. Not sure where the turbo is from.

On the mis-fueling, they had a recall, installing a gizmo that only allows the diesel nozzle (larger diameter) to enter the filler tube. This should really help. As we discussed before, I did the math on that, and it looks like on average, every 10k fillups, people have a pump blow. I find it conceivable that every 10k fillups someone messed up. It will be interesting if the rates of failures go down now that probably 80% of the cars have been fitted with the mis-fueling guard.

I have no complaints. Diesel is less than regular right now in my hood. If something goes sideways on my car, however, I'll be ready to lay into the dealer. It helps if you know what you are talking about on the cars. They get very respectful once they figure that out. My only dealer contact now is to have them change fuel filters. I'll continue to have them do that to 100k, just in case something happens with that pump. I will be able to say that the fuel system only had dealer maintenance.

G

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by aigel

Only dealer contact now is to have them change fuel filters. I'll continue to have them do that to 100k, just in case something happens with that pump. I will be able to say that the fuel system only had dealer maintenance.

G

That is incredibly thought out. My plan was to go this route once I hit the 36k mark.
2microntech - Helping to Keep Your Common Rail VW Alive!! - TDIClub Forums

[aigel]

Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid

That is incredibly thought out. My plan was to go this route once I hit the 36k mark.
2microntech - Helping to Keep Your Common Rail VW Alive!! - TDIClub Forums

Interesting idea. Thanks for sharing. But looks like it isn't a mature product and the inventor dropped off the face of the planet. Too bad - often the folks with the good idea aren't good business people. I hope a pro aftermarket company picks this up. Looks like cheap insurance, as the pump isn't the expensive problem rather than its debris when it goes ...

Sorry for the taking the thread off topic ...

G

[Jrboulder]

I don't know what all this chest thumping about "Made in Germany" is all about. German VW workers make $67/hr which is directly passed on to the consumer. To plug in color coded wiring connectors and press in plastic clips. Stuff that's highly engineered to only work one way. Workers in the Puebla plant where my Jetta was made start at $5/hr to plug in color coded wiring connectors and press in plastic clips. They're closely supervised by German management. How can you expect a manufacturer of economy cars to use great materials and have strict quality control when they have to pay the people pluging in color coded wiring connectors and pressing in plastic clips over 13 times as much as other plants in the company and their competitors?

And then lets not forget all they have to do to get the cars to market is load up a KCS train and move it north. No tariffs, no boat rides. Straight into the distribution network of North America.

[1990C4S]

The hourly rate is almost insignificant in the cost of your car. The average economy car has 20 hours of labor in the assembly plant.

If the cars made in Mexico were significantly worse then VW would stop manufacturing there, in the end they cover the warranty costs.

[1990C4S]

There is no lemon law where I live.

There is third party mediation available, I doubt it will get that far.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by Jrboulder

I don't know what all this chest thumping about "Made in Germany" is all about. German VW workers make $67/hr which is directly passed on to the consumer. To plug in color coded wiring connectors and press in plastic clips. Stuff that's highly engineered to only work one way. Workers in the Puebla plant where my Jetta was made start at $5/hr to plug in color coded wiring connectors and press in plastic clips. They're closely supervised by German management. How can you expect a manufacturer of economy cars to use great materials and have strict quality control when they have to pay the people pluging in color coded wiring connectors and pressing in plastic clips over 13 times as much as other plants in the company and their competitors?

And then lets not forget all they have to do to get the cars to market is load up a KCS train and move it north. No tariffs, no boat rides. Straight into the distribution network of North America.

Should we not forget about the mexican passats that could not even pass standard quality control. But not hating on mexican built cars, I have a mk4 jetta tdi that is hecho in mexico, and is super reliable... Minus the brittle interior...

Anyways, You need to contact vw ag, and see what they will do about it. Good luck for your friend!

[1990C4S]

The turbos are made by Borg Warner, but I don't know where they are made.

I should also add this appears to be just a Passat issue, the Jetta does not have the same problem. And since the engine is identical (aside from software) I am leaning towards the emissions code idea.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid

The passat's are crap, made in Mexico junk

Most of the things made in Mexico are high quality. Not sure where you are getting your information.

[1990C4S]

So the dealer was very helpful. The VW rep (not a dealer employee) confirmed they have a serious turbo issue (oil starvation) and no fix in place yet, although they are road testing thinner oils. This is just a Passat issue, not a Jetta issue, and not seen Audi's. An extended warranty appears likely on all these cars.

The turbo bearing was starved of oil, the bearing seized, and the turbo shaft snapped off. All the detritus flowed downstream, although the dealer (and VW) is adamant the engine is 100% repaired.

They are offering him a 'good deal' although he has not seen it in writing yet. The real issue is the dealer does not have a car he wants. He does not want a 2014 Passat, as they admit the issue is still present in all new cars. He does not want a gas engine, as he has a very long commute and the fuel cost is roughly double. He does not want to pay the premium for an A6 Audi diesel.

He may have to wait for a 2015 and take his chances with the new and (possibly) improved engine.

Stay tuned...

[KNS]

It will be interesting to see what VW does moving forward, they really need to improve their reputation in the US. Too bad they couldn't offer him an extended warranty on the spot.

[beepbeep]

Is the issue coked oil passages, starving the turbo or just too little flow?

Generally, manufacturers considered diesel turbos not being hot ebough to warrant water cooled bearing housing. Maybe they need to reconsider this, as modern diesels pack quite a hp/l punch.

Edit:

Oh dear, it seems to be common.
http://65.110.12.166/showthread.php?t=375789

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by beepbeep

Is the issue coked oil passages, starving the turbo or just too little flow?

Generally, manufacturers considered diesel turbos not being hot ebough to warrant water cooled bearing housing. Maybe they need to reconsider this, as modern diesels pack quite a hp/l punch.

Edit:

Oh dear, it seems to be common.
TURBO: Please report NMS turbo failures here. [not a discussion thread!] - TDIClub Forums

Yes, I have read that thread, and several others just like that one. Enough failures to destroy VW's (until now) quite good diesel reputation.

I don't think oil passages can coke up in a few thousand miles, there are some failures on almost new cars. I think somehow the flow is too low, although I have no idea why when the Jetta is fine.

[beepbeep]

Hmm...what a mess. Apparently, there is a exhaust flap which periodically closes which subjects turbo to 60 psi backpressure (!) from time to time in order to do something with emissions. Also, extra fuel is injected to clean the particle filter (at the same time?).

No wonder turbos are snapping in half...

[1990C4S]

What could possibly go wrong?

Apparently it does all sorts of weird things and makes disconcerting noises during warm-up.

[Nostril Cheese]

Remember when Volkswagen meant reliable, efficient transportation for not much money?

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by nostril cheese

remember when volkswagen meant reliable, efficient transportation for not much money?

a4 tdi.

[Arizona_928]

yeah, you can't kill a 1.9l ALH. ^^

[aigel]

Originally Posted by Jrboulder

I don't know what all this chest thumping about "Made in Germany" is all about. German VW workers make $67/hr which is directly passed on to the consumer. To plug in color coded wiring connectors and press in plastic clips. Stuff that's highly engineered to only work one way. Workers in the Puebla plant where my Jetta was made start at $5/hr to plug in color coded wiring connectors and press in plastic clips. They're closely supervised by German management. How can you expect a manufacturer of economy cars to use great materials and have strict quality control when they have to pay the people pluging in color coded wiring connectors and pressing in plastic clips over 13 times as much as other plants in the company and their competitors?

And then lets not forget all they have to do to get the cars to market is load up a KCS train and move it north. No tariffs, no boat rides. Straight into the distribution network of North America.

You are over-simplifying building a car. Things are not just plugged together by trained monkeys.

There is a lot of support going into a factory and workers in Germany are far better educated than most countries in the world through their trades education. Also, work ethic and pride in workmanship are something that you will have a hard time reproducing elsewhere. People working in Wolfsburg will be at that factory all their lives and identify with the brand.

Transferring a production process to a 2nd world country will always take its toll on the product, no matter how many expats you send and how good your quality system. The more complicated the product, the bigger the effect.

I don't see a large discrepancy in price between the German assembled VW cars and the Mexican assembled cars, if they are the same equipped vehicle (i.e. Jetta TDI vs. Golf TDI). How come? I think the PROFITS are higher on the Mexican assembled cars. They don't pass along the savings car by car I am afraid. So, there you have a German based company making money off the Mexicans and the consumer. What goes back to Germany? "German engineering"?

That's just my two cents on the subject.

G

[1990C4S]

I don't think any business discounts identical products based on manufacturing location.

To start the discussion on 'profit per car' in various countries is going down a rabbit hole we will never emerge from.