My Tesla thoughts after driving one...

[tedg04]

Originally Posted by Drisump

IMHO in a few years the cars complexity (and therefore it's cost to repair) and the fact that it will not be state of the art any longer, will likely limit it's resale value. (4-6 year service life..like a laptop?) Cheers

I made the same parallel in another Tesla thread here. The rebuttal was that everything is modular so it can be upgraded. (Nevermind that laptops are modular as well - you can upgrade ram/hdd/board if you want.)

Great car, and a good move for Tesla to choose the luxo sedan market (where at $80k it is 'affordable'). It will be interesting to see where the market leads on this. As electronics go, newer gets significantly better, and cheaper. In the automotive market, newer items are marginally better and marginally more costly. If the successor to the Model S has better battery tech, more efficient motors, and costs the same or less as the Model S did - I fear the Model S' used value will plummet.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by Drisump

You have all that acceleration at your disposal but if you actually use it, your range is very much limited. Also, in a very temperate climate that isn't too hot and doesn't get too cold the argument is quite solid for an electric car. In hotter and/or colder climates throw on the A/C or heat and/or lighting into the power demand, and you've got very limited range.

Yes, flooring it will diminish the range quickly.

Power range is not limited by using the A/C. It's been on everyday and no significant drop that I can tell.

I'll zero one of the tripmeters, take note of the cruising range and see how the numbers add up.

[Jim Bremner]

I'm a traveling sales rep and really would love to own one. think if you buy a $45k car thatget's 20 miles to the gallon in reallife use. I drive 40k miles a year with gas at $4.25 so I will burn $8,500 in gas in one year. If I drove it for 10 years I'm pretty sure that by the time that I write off the mileage that it would earn me money.

[Por_sha911]

What do you do when you try to go somewhere and there is a glitch and you hear:

[Sarc]

I think that's great and I really, really hope gen X's or whatever get to have some vehicular experience that means something to them.

But:

Not only did I drive my Speedster and my 911 this weekend, but my buddy came around in his '63 Chevy - classic 4 speed, dual quad, Posi-traction, 409. It makes me kind of sad that the Tesla generation may never feel the ring of a pair of AFBs at full throttle or appreciate a Porsche flat four or six at full song.

Well...if you boomers would quit escalating the price of all things cool (ie the classics), this X'er would certainly put your concerns at ease ;-)

Glad to hear the OP is fan of the Tesla, it's pretty cool for what it is, but as someone who has grown up during the digital age as well (and whose career depends on it), the last thing I would want to drive daily is a laptop on wheels.

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by island911

So please don't poo-poo those who see the value/risk differently,

hey don't poo poo me for poo pooing the poo pooers

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Jim Bremner

I'm a traveling sales rep and really would love to own one. think if you buy a $45k car thatget's 20 miles to the gallon in reallife use. I drive 40k miles a year with gas at $4.25 so I will burn $8,500 in gas in one year. If I drove it for 10 years I'm pretty sure that by the time that I write off the mileage that it would earn me money.

And who is going to pay for the recharging when you need it?

[stealthn]

Just watch the videos on Tesla's site, amazing thought that went into the tech. I would love one but not at new prices.

[slodave]

And who is going to pay for the recharging when you need it?

In a couple of years the supercharger station should be prolific enough, that one might be able to do most of the charging free.

[Por_sha911]

Do you think the fed, state, and local govt's are going to just roll over and let the income from gas tax go away?
Those "free" charging stations will have a tax for the power you draw. After all, its only fair that the elec cars pay their share of tax money that would go to roads and general slush funds.
Besides that, I don't think the free for life promise will last. They will find a loophole to take it away. Bellsouth used to offer free for life rollover minutes. Suddenly one day I get a letter telling me so sad, too bad, those minutes now expire after one year. How much more can the govt change the rules as they darn well please?

[slodave]

Of course there will be road taxes. Bet it still will be cheaper to drive electric than gas.

[Jim Richards]

Dave, thanks for sharing your thoughts on driving the Tesla. I felt like I saw more Teslas than Porsches on my recent trip to SoCal.

Not everyone can make the case to buy one, but that doesn't negate the value of sharing driving experiences with this car and other cars that most of us never get a chance to drive.

[slodave]

Not a great test, since I only drove 4.1 miles, but it was dark enough that the headlights were on. A/C was also on. I had a 3-4 minute wait at a stop light and also went through the drive-thru for dinner. I started with a "rated range" of 186 miles, drove 4.1 with the 5 or so minute stops and my "rated range" dropped by 4.

I'll have some better numbers with longer mixed freeway/street driving this week and will watch the numbers.

[island911]

For business... fwiw, my business neighbor has one. (construction contractor) He now keeps it on the down-low as he lost some customers because of it. ...they figure that he must be gouging the hell out of them if he can afford that. Back to the vanilla truck.

On the other hand, if your business has you really racking up the miles, the pay-back can happen in a few years. ..and I expect customers would understand.

FWIW2, There's been a green 2013 Model S on Craigslist Portland (OR) for a while now. 'Only' $71,500 ...but a 60 kWh w/ coil springs. 2013 Tesla Model S (no aff)

[slodave]

I have a feeling the 60kW may go bye-bye in the next couple of years. Yes, the Tesla employees have all that much more to gain if they can persuade you into buying the premium models, but I heard from the guy that was giving the walk around on pickup that more people are deciding on the 85kW versions for range. People are also not buying the used 60kW versions.

The 60 is really a city car, while the 85 is the touring car.

BTW, you have to pay an extra $2,500 (one time fee) to enable "supercharging" on the 60's. I would be surprised if that was factored into the used 60 above.

[island911]

Didn't they have an even low power model, way back?

ps, the math on that tesla... If they get what they're asking, that's a cost to the original owner of $14,555/5300miles ...or $2.75 per mile. (ouch - NOT the way to do it)

[slodave]

Yes, they were going to put out a 45kW(?) version, but it was killed off before any were sold, as no one was pre-ordering them.

Notice that the owner wants to upgrade to the 85kW version...

The owner should have bought the 85kW version off that bat.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by island911

For business... fwiw, my business neighbor has one. (construction contractor) He now keeps it on the down-low as he lost some customers because of it. ...they figure that he must be gouging the hell out of them if he can afford that. Back to the vanilla truck.

On the other hand, if your business has you really racking up the miles, the pay-back can happen in a few years. ..and I expect customers would understand.

FWIW2, There's been a green 2013 Model S on Craigslist Portland (OR) for a while now. 'Only' $71,500 ...but a 60 kWh w/ coil springs. 2013 Tesla Model S (no aff)

That reminds me.... Locally farmers only buy white cars so their neighbors don't think they're doing well.

--------------------------------

But this looks like a great car and it's still early days for electric cars.
I'd imagine people would have been saying the same things about those new fangled gas powered cars when steam cars were the norm.

If you think about it the internal combustion engine is old technology. Sure they run smoothly, efficiently and all that but they haven't changed fundamentals for a very long time and there's a good reason for that.
Because right now it's the best and most efficient way to travel until "they" make that breakthrough in battery technology. Will that breakthrough ever happen and will it match gasoline for efficiency, convenience and range?

[kaisen]

Even if superchargers weren't "free" and you were charging your Tesla S 85kWh at home each night, it would still be ridiculously cheap. SoCalEdison has an off-peak charge rate for EVs at $0.08 per kWh and the Tesla Model S 85kWh is rated at 37 kWh/100 miles.

So if you drove 1,250 miles per month (15K/yr) and charged at home every night, you'd have used 463 kWh at $0.08 per, for a total monthly electric rate of $37.00..... yep, thirty seven bucks a month to drive your Tesla if you paid for every bit of electricity.

Compare that to a gasoline powered car like a Honda Accord 4 cylinder at 3.0 gals / 100 miles (33mpg EPA combined) and $4.10/gal (actual CA avg right now) for that same 1,250 miles would be $154.00

$154.00 - $37.00 = $117 per month energy savings ....... or save $154/mo if you use Tesla's free superchargers

That's SoCal pricing. Savings would be even greater in some parts of the country (in Minneapolis the off-peak EV rate is $0.035/kWh)

[island911]

I think that's it..45kWh.. was supposed to be $65k-ish? (iirc)

Anyway, To me, that cancellation/trend spoke volumes about their future sales. To stay alive they have to compete with Porsche and Mercedes. (not easy in the long run - especially when they (tesla) are not making huge profit on those big-$ (and subsidized) sales ...like Porsche and MBz do w/o huge tax incentives.)

Battery tech has never followed Moore's law (as so much other tech has). Batteries are simply really effn expensive, and I don't see that changing any time soon. :-/ And, if a disruptive battery tech does show up, VAG et al will be all over it. (not much advantage for a CA based old battery car company)