My Tesla thoughts after driving one...

[island911]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Who cares how much profit they do or don't make..... ...

LOL, now you are just being absurd.

MBz BMW and Audi will be around in the coming years. When Saab went under did you see how cheap the cars got? People who can swing 100k for a "laptop on wheels' are not going to hold onto the thing (or buy more) if they think that servicing the tech will become a kludge-fest.

PS, both CA and WA have the highest concentrations of Model-S' ...and both give about a $10k purchase tax break to the buyer. (on top of the Fed incentive) You call that competitive? ...btw, that break is soon gone in WA.

[rusnak]

OW Puppy had it right several posts back.

[sc_rufctr]

[gostraight]

Tesla does not want BMW, Mercedes or Audi profit margins because:

BMW 11.8 %
Audi 12.1 %
Daimler (automotive) 7.8%

TESLA 25%

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by slodave

In a couple of years the supercharger station should be prolific enough, that one might be able to do most of the charging free.

Originally Posted by island911

On the other hand, if your business has you really racking up the miles, the pay-back can happen in a few years.

Originally Posted by kaisen

Even if superchargers weren't "free" and you were charging your Tesla S 85kWh at home each night, it would still be ridiculously cheap. SoCalEdison has an off-peak charge rate for EVs at $0.08 per kWh and the Tesla Model S 85kWh is rated at 37 kWh/100 miles.

So if you drove 1,250 miles per month (15K/yr) and charged at home every night, you'd have used 463 kWh at $0.08 per, for a total monthly electric rate of $37.00..... yep, thirty seven bucks a month to drive your Tesla if you paid for every bit of electricity.

That's SoCal pricing. Savings would be even greater in some parts of the country (in Minneapolis the off-peak EV rate is $0.035/kWh)

I understand that EVs may be worthwhile in the future but, unfortunately for now, you guys are not using real world scenarios to come up with your new found savings.

Super-charges WON'T be prolific in the foreseeable future unless you are looking at a VERY SMALL and densely populated area like LA. This is a case of city people telling the rest of the country to use mass-transit. Show me the subway station in TN.

If you "really rack up the miles" you are going to be getting a lot of tow bills when you run out of juice before lunch. The thing that would help pay for the higher cost of the vehicle is not attainable due to limits of range.

So-Cal prices for elec is higher but, where I live, the cost of power is not the issue. Its getting the charge WHEN and WHERE I need it. Lastly, if the EVs become plentiful then the off-peak rate will jump up to compensate for the lower advantage to the utility. Eventually there will be very little difference in Off-Peak rates. Also, higher demand will stress the Grid that is already on the ragged edge of being overloaded. This means higher elec costs ALL day to cover the cost of upgrading the grid to cover greater demand. I saw this happen with LILCO many years ago. We paid more for building the nuclear plants so we could get cheaper electricity but the rates never went down.

As stated before, there will be additional taxes levied to cover the lost income for gas tax. In the long run, you will pay as much or more for an EV yet still have lower range.

[jyl]

Can't compare the gross margins on a 3 series compact. The GM% on a 7 series is way higher.

Tesla does not want BMW, Mercedes or Audi profit margins because:



BMW 11.8 %

Audi 12.1 %

Daimler (automotive) 7.8%



TESLA 25%

[slodave]

It pays to drive a Tesla!!! Not only have I not paid for gas, I just found $20 in a parking lot!

[gostraight]

Can't compare the gross margins on a 3 series compact. The GM% on a 7 series is way higher.

Quote

Tesla does not want BMW, Mercedes or Audi profit margins because:





BMW 11.8 %


Audi 12.1 %


Daimler (automotive) 7.8%





TESLA 25%

Actually the 11.8 is record for BMW (automotive) as a whole across the lineup.

[enzo1]

[island911]

Originally Posted by gostraight

Tesla does not want BMW, Mercedes or Audi profit margins because:

BMW 11.8 %
Audi 12.1 %
Daimler (automotive) 7.8%

TESLA 25%

-8% according to the first search hit

Tesla Motors (TSLA) Chart and http://ycharts.com/companies/TSLA/profit_margin



I know that Musk has set a goal of 25% profit.

Porsche was at 50% when absorbed by VAG

[island911]

Net income ..
Tesla Motors Net Income (TTM) (TSLA)



March 31, 2014 -135.06M
Dec. 31, 2013 -74.01M
Sept. 30, 2013 -147.68M
June 30, 2013 -219.99M
March 31, 2013 -295.09M
Dec. 31, 2012 -396.21M
Sept. 30, 2012 -387.77M
June 30, 2012 -342.04M
March 31, 2012 -295.34M
Dec. 31, 2011 -254.41M



Yikes!

[slodave]

My post wasn't to try and get into this numbers game - again....

I'm just trying to give a real world opinion on the car as a whole, from how it drives, to how it's built.

As was mentioned before, right now it's a niche car for a targeted audience. The car works. You have range and luxury and it's still also a test bed of sorts for the future - the direction in which we are hopefully headed.

Comparing the P85 to a tricked out Miata means nothing. The Tesla isn't designed for 1/4 mile runs, just so happens that a bi-product of the electric motor, is instant and full torque.

It's a new company, but is moving a god amount of cars.

You can either like the car or not. But it's a shame that a lot do "poo poo" the car, but have never personally driven one and some, never even have sat in one.

[foxpaws]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

I understand that EVs may be worthwhile in the future but, unfortunately for now, you guys are not using real world scenarios to come up with your new found savings.

Super-charges WON'T be prolific in the foreseeable future unless you are looking at a VERY SMALL and densely populated area like LA. This is a case of city people telling the rest of the country to use mass-transit. Show me the subway station in TN.

If you "really rack up the miles" you are going to be getting a lot of tow bills when you run out of juice before lunch. The thing that would help pay for the higher cost of the vehicle is not attainable due to limits of range.

So-Cal prices for elec is higher but, where I live, the cost of power is not the issue. Its getting the charge WHEN and WHERE I need it. Lastly, if the EVs become plentiful then the off-peak rate will jump up to compensate for the lower advantage to the utility. Eventually there will be very little difference in Off-Peak rates. Also, higher demand will stress the Grid that is already on the ragged edge of being overloaded. This means higher elec costs ALL day to cover the cost of upgrading the grid to cover greater demand. I saw this happen with LILCO many years ago. We paid more for building the nuclear plants so we could get cheaper electricity but the rates never went down.

As stated before, there will be additional taxes levied to cover the lost income for gas tax. In the long run, you will pay as much or more for an EV yet still have lower range.

What is good for the goose may not be good for the gander....

I own a Volt. While it might be a bad option for you, it is a great option for me. It is nice to have options, for everyone. Electricity cost per mile is about 1.5 cents where I live, I can get back and forth to work on a single charge, plus I have the added bonus that I am allowed to charge the car at work. A single oil change per year, who knows when I will need to change belts or hoses. The electric motor has very little maintenance. With rebates the vehicle will cost me less than $20,000, quite reasonable, and my fuel savings are around $120 a month, I will pay far less in cost per mile than I would for a similarly priced combustion engine only vehicle.

The numbers do work for some people, and not for others, but it is nice to have all sorts of choices.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

I understand that EVs may be worthwhile in the future but, unfortunately for now, you guys are not using real world scenarios to come up with your new found savings.

Super-charges WON'T be prolific in the foreseeable future unless you are looking at a VERY SMALL and densely populated area like LA. This is a case of city people telling the rest of the country to use mass-transit. Show me the subway station in TN.

If you "really rack up the miles" you are going to be getting a lot of tow bills when you run out of juice before lunch. The thing that would help pay for the higher cost of the vehicle is not attainable due to limits of range.

So-Cal prices for elec is higher but, where I live, the cost of power is not the issue. Its getting the charge WHEN and WHERE I need it. Lastly, if the EVs become plentiful then the off-peak rate will jump up to compensate for the lower advantage to the utility. Eventually there will be very little difference in Off-Peak rates. Also, higher demand will stress the Grid that is already on the ragged edge of being overloaded. This means higher elec costs ALL day to cover the cost of upgrading the grid to cover greater demand. I saw this happen with LILCO many years ago. We paid more for building the nuclear plants so we could get cheaper electricity but the rates never went down.

As stated before, there will be additional taxes levied to cover the lost income for gas tax. In the long run, you will pay as much or more for an EV yet still have lower range.

Look at what is out there now - Telsa Superchargers only and what is being developed. There's only one supercharger in L.A.! (two, but the other is strictly for the delivery center and not open to the "public"). There are more 3rd party chargers out there, granted not "super", but do get the job done. Pay services, but still cheaper than buying gas. Plus, most have a one time option, so in a pinch, you can grab a charge and not get locked into contracts. As well, unless Tesla disabled the feature, other Tesla owners have created a network of chargers - their houses - and made them accessible to other Tesla drivers. You can punch them up on the NAV screen. Most of TN should be covered by early next year.
Supercharger | Tesla Motors

I CAN'T charge the Tesla at my town home, but it has yet to be an issue in the almost two weeks of driving it.

My parents did a drive from L.A. to Santa Cruz, no problems.

Off-peak will not jump up, as the power companies are working with the EV companies and encourage you to charge off peak, since they have a surplus of electricity during those times anyway.

Road taxes should be levied, but at the same rates they are at the pumps. There is less wear and tear with an EV on a road, than there is gas. gas/oil eats at the asphalt.

Again, in my opinion, it's a great car and would not hesitate to buy one if I could afford it.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

I have the added bonus that I am allowed to charge the car at work.

This will be a determining factor for a lot of people. Either for range or cost reasons.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Even the superchargers don't make it a feasible cross country road trip car though. The average car can give you 300+ miles range in a 5 minute gas stop, the supercharger gives you 170 miles range in a 30 minute stop. It really makes the most sense as a city car that you plug in at night.

I'd like to see Tesla take on a Volt style plug-in hybrid. I'm sure they could make a much more enjoyable package than GM.

[1990C4S]

A two car family, one gas, one electric does/could make sense now.

[slodave]

Even the superchargers don't make it a feasible cross country road trip car though. The average car can give you 300+ miles range in a 5 minute gas stop, the supercharger gives you 170 miles range in a 30 minute stop. It really makes the most sense as a city car that you plug in at night.



I'd like to see Tesla take on a Volt style plug-in hybrid. I'm sure they could make a much more enjoyable package than GM.

Depends on the definition of "cross country". It's used every day for this, up
And down the coast at least. There are tricks you start to learn to make it feasible.

[cockerpunk]

there is going to be a very small breed of people, who will be dragged kicking and screaming into the future.

sad really. i considered a volt last time, but its still more than i want to pay and apartments make charging tough. maybe after i buy a house .... i have to admit i like the idea of using that as a commuter, and then having the Porsche for cruising, and the mr2 for autocross/track duty.

[foxpaws]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Even the superchargers don't make it a feasible cross country road trip car though. The average car can give you 300+ miles range in a 5 minute gas stop, the supercharger gives you 170 miles range in a 30 minute stop. It really makes the most sense as a city car that you plug in at night.

I'd like to see Tesla take on a Volt style plug-in hybrid. I'm sure they could make a much more enjoyable package than GM.

The Volt isn't bad regarding build quality - too many plastics (but what mid-priced car isn't filled with plastic these days). Decent ride/drive qualities, obviously somewhat heavy, weird braking until you get used to it - then, wow - what braking! However, everyone at my house wants to drive it - quiet is nice, it is odd, how quickly you get use to far less noise.

Plus, it really does have the advantage of not having 'range anxiety'. I know a couple of Leaf owners - and they do get that eerie feeling more then they like.

I certainly see a big electric car market for two car households, like 1990C4S. They are great for the average commute - and perfect for all those 'run arounds' on weekends.

Again, I think it is all about choice-how great that we now have some real alternatives to something the oil companies pushed us all towards 60 years ago.