My Tesla thoughts after driving one...

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by einreb

There are quite a few in my neighborhood and the owners I've talked to seem to love them. They certainly aren't cheap, but seem to be bought by folks that may have otherwise spent 60k+ on a benz/bimmer and its not that big of a deal to pay a bit of a premium for something unique that interests them.

They are luxury/performance vehicles... no doubt about it. The range thing is something to consider, but most family folks around hear have two cars. Typical garage has a nice sedan and then a minivan or SUV. I can see how the road trip range isn't really an issue for most buyers since they'd just take the other car.

I see quite a few of them here, too. And also when I'm on the west coast. I think Tesla is, through their supercharging stations, trying to eventually remove range anxiety from the purchase decision. If they can get to a similar point to where we're at now as drivers of gas-powered vehicles, then the electric vehicle market may take off. But that's still a big "if" at this point in time. I'd kind of like to see them succeed, so we have a future with more choices.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

They are currently marketed by Tesla as premium cars, which sounds like their customer base is not the average person. So, your post is redundant and completely irrelevant. By the way, what are the statistics you referred to?

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Eric didn't post any statistics, just a single data point. But you said "Statistically,..." What statistics? You are an engineer of some sort, right?

Here's the statistical data that I referenced, the latest National Household Travel Survey, published by the US Dept of Transportation and Federal Highway Administration:

http://nhts.ornl.gov/2009/pub/stt.pdf

Read up. Trips over 200 miles are pretty rare. You can spend a lot of time analyzing the data at nhts.ornl.gov/

[onewhippedpuppy]

I've actually, and unfortunately, never made a coast to coast road trip. But I do make a lot of 200-400 mile trips to the sticks. That would be my bigger concern.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

Great shot of the S -

So slodave - now that you are back with a gas powered vehicle - are you missing the electric 'love'?

The first thing I notice as I get into one of my 'regular' vehicles after being in the Volt for a week (or longer) is the noise and the 'busy-ness' of the gas powered car. Unless I want the rumble of that big V8 (or the whine of the flat 6) I find very quickly I get tired of the noise level if I am just getting from point A to point B. I also oddly find that I get irritated more easily in the gas powered vehicle, for some reason I am more willing to 'go with the flow' in the Volt.

And another thing - I have no idea of what gas costs - I haven't been at a gas station in months (however, I will have to fill up the gas beasties this weekend, so I will find out in a big hurry). My kwh is .046 in the winter and about .07 in the summer - so a 'tank' of electricity (13 kwh) right now is $.91 and I get about 45 miles to the charge - can't beat fuel costs of .02 a mile... in the winter, it is almost 1/2 that... Plus, I almost always just charge at work - so, my fuel cost is basically nothing....

I know electric vehicles or even EREVs aren't a good choices for everyone - but, they certainly make sense for many commuters.... and isn't having choices sort of what America is all about? If an electric car makes sense for you - buy it, if a gas powered vehicle is a better option for you -then do that....

Yes, I miss it. I was reunited with the Model S briefly yesterday.

When I dropped the car off, I had to shuffle cars around at my parents. First I moved my Camry - got in and promptly turned the windshield wipers on. Wiper stalk is where the drive/park stalk is on the Tesla and Mercedes. Moved the car and promptly turned the wipers on again trying to put it in park. Then I got out of the car without turning it off.... Into the Mercedes. No problem with drive/reverse/park, but when I put it in reverse and put my foot on the accelerator, the car didn't move. Okay, did I not put it in reverse? Nope, in reverse... Push harder on the accelerator and the car moved. Got the cars moved around and now off to the airport in the Mercedes.... Damn thing wouldn't slow down when I took my foot off the accelerator! Oh yeah.... I have to put my foot on the brake pedal to slow the car down.

There was a bit of a learning curve to get adjusted to a gas car again.

[slodave]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Ah, no..... perhaps you meant "for free"..... because you can certainly go anywhere you can find a place to plug in. Not that hard. But not as fast. And likely not free.

But you'll still get there.

Exactly. You can subscribe to 3rd party charging stations. Yes, you pay, but they are sprouting up at a ton of locations in the greater L.A. area and I expect in other cities as well. Subscriptions can be monthly or a one time charge.

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

True. Though I suspect trying to find an EV charger in Hickville USA would be a challenge, and Bubba might not be willing to loan out his extension cord and let you use his outlet. I also cringe at the thought of stopping every two hours to charge for 40 minutes. Slower charge times are even less appealing. Like I said earlier in this thread, these are tailor made for an urban area. Cross country road trips are definitely their weakness.

There is a database only for Tesla customers that shows those who have opened up there home chargers to other Model S owners. You can pull them up on the Nav screen and when you find one close, call the number(s) listed. In a pinch, it can help. If they have a 220 plug and can handle 40 amps, that's 30 miles in an hour. Enough of a charge to get you out of trouble.

Also, you don't charge all the way to 100% at every stop. This is a misconception by those that have not spent time in the Model S. I can drive from my house to Santa Cruz with one stop. If the Model S was charged to 100% at the start of the trip, I'd have a 79 mile range when I stop in Atascadero to "fill up". All I need is a charge of 150 miles (to be safe) and I can get to Santa Cruz with no problem. Now, what do I do when in S.C. to charge 100% to get home? Not sure on that. Maybe there's a hotel that offers charging. In that case, plug in before bed and hitting the road and all is good. If not, there's a Supercharger in Gilroy, not far from S.C., but totally in range with what I had left from the Atascadero charge.

Originally Posted by island911

incredibly inexpensive . .yeah, except for that first $100k. (laptop on wheels ain't cheap.)

What's a good golf-cart cost these days? That ought to be cheap. (by comparison). Besides, it maybe once or twice a year you take a long road trip .... pack the cooler!

Seriously, the "oh look how cheap it is" argument is a fail with Teslas.

The "oh look how cheap it is" comes about with the gas savings compared to the S550 or 750 series BMW. The initial cost of the Tesla is not cheap. But those in the market, can afford either. In the long run, the fuel savings will add up and show how cheap it is.

Originally Posted by kaisen

The cost of daily driving is "incredibly inexpensive", free Supercharger or not.

Think about it. On that trip they averaged 105 mpge. But 33.4 kwh (equivalency to a gallon of gasoline) isn't $3.59 (the current national average for a gallon of gas), even if you had to pay for it at home (vs free Supercharger). Here in Minneapolis, you'd have to have a gasoline powered car that got 230 mpg to equal the driving costs of a Tesla Model S (with no free Supercharging). In other words, a M-B S550 would cost you ten times as much to drive daily. One tenth for the Tesla, then, is "incredibly inexpensive".

A laptop on wheels may cost $100K, but so does a comparable gasoline luxury car that performs similarly. Have you priced out a Audi A7, or M-B S550 lately? The initial cost isn't a powerful argument against a Tesla S (which has a base price of $69,900)

Exactly.

In the end, I would have no problem selling my Camry hybrid and owning a Model S or the upcoming Model III. I'd still have my gas burning 911, but I could see myself getting around just fine in a total electric car and for that occasional road trip. By 2017, I imagine the Superchargers will start to make more appearances in cities.

[Aurel]

There is the Tesla, and there is the much cheaper Porsche 911 electric conversion kit...Another way to drive in style and electric.

Rebirth Auto Porsche 911 Single Motor Kit - Rebirth AutoRebirth Auto

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by slodave

I love the car. #4,600lbs and it is a rocket. With 325 lb·ft at 0 RPM's, it's just totally amazing the power and speed that gets you to top speed (yes, only 120MPH, but who cares ).

So...would you have liked it more with an entire 3.2L Carrera engine stapled to the front wheels?

I can't believe this hasn't been discussed yet:
My lap of terror in the Tesla D | The Verge
The 691 Horsepower ​Tesla Model S P85D Does 0-60 In 3.2 Seconds

AWD, second motor, extra 221Hp, for $4K extra on any of their cars.

[island911]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

So...would you have liked it more with an entire 3.2L Carrera engine stapled to the front wheels?

I can't believe this hasn't been discussed yet:
My lap of terror in the Tesla D | The Verge
The 691 Horsepower ​Tesla Model S P85D Does 0-60 In 3.2 Seconds

AWD, second motor, extra 221Hp, for $4K extra on any of their cars.

I've got to give it to Elon... All that talk about making electric cars for the masses was just a brilliant head-fake. He KNOWS his customer base, and it's not the Leaf buyers. Rather it's the Go Fast guys with deep pockets.

And now those with the first Model S's will all have to upgrade like a bunch of iPhoneⁿ⁺¹ groupies.

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by island911

I've got to give it to Elon... All that talk about making electric cars for the masses was just a brilliant head-fake. He KNOWS his customer base, and it's not the Leaf buyers. Rather it's the Go Fast guys with deep pockets.

And now those with the first Model S's will all have to upgrade like a bunch of iPhoneⁿ⁺¹ groupies.

I guess it's particularly fortuitous that they just announced their CPO plan. Since they'll now have the entire stock of existing Model S cars returned slightly used to be swapped for the Model Balls Out S cars.

That means lots of 60Kw cars being returned, and sold cheap as CPO cars. Wait...that means...cars for the masses! He just trolled you!

[island911]

Yeah, and Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini all make cars for the masses.

[island911]

BTW, how many cup holders does the Model S have?

And what's a new set of tires cost?

Battery pack?

Home Charging station?

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

The first thing I notice as I get into one of my 'regular' vehicles after being in the Volt for a week (or longer) is the noise and the 'busy-ness' of the gas powered car. Unless I want the rumble of that big V8 (or the whine of the flat 6) I find very quickly I get tired of the noise level if I am just getting from point A to point B. I also oddly find that I get irritated more easily in the gas powered vehicle, for some reason I am more willing to 'go with the flow' in the Volt.

We are seeing the same phenomenon with the i3 vs the X1 (though it is a turbo 4). The i3 provides a much more calm travel environment and stress levels seem to drop - which in LA traffic is hard to accomplish. My wife absolutely loves the car...I rarely get to drive it.

It is still a bit of a niche, but it is getting closer to mainstream viability. For many in LA, having 130-150 mile range without charging or adding more gas (what the i3 Rex will do) covers 99% of the driving. The Tesla has even longer range. BMW will be coming out with a program that either provides free loaners or heavily discounted rental cars when owners need to do a long road trip. Or you could do it with the i3 or Tesla - just takes more planning and you can't be in a hurry.

[gostraight]

D test drive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbVEkh4AMqM

[Rapewta]

I want one.
What needs to be explained is what is the difference from charging your car in the garage on a 220 volt single phase source for "X" amount of hours to fill up the tank so to speak or
just going to the gas station and putting gas in the car.
Electricity is produced by turning crude oil into a burning source that turns water into steam.
So even tho the Tesla runs on batteries....
It takes oil to make the electricity to charge the car.

I know.. Hydro, Nuclear, solar, Natural gas, Geo thermo, crude oil...(and other means) all are used to keep the Tesla on the road.
Is it really saving the planet? Is it really cost saving?

I want one but can't afford it at this time. Good automobile.

[slodave]

Quote de slodave

I love the car. #4,600lbs and it is a rocket. With 325 lb·ft at 0 RPM's, it's just totally amazing the power and speed that gets you to top speed (yes, only 120MPH, but who cares ).

So...would you have liked it more with an entire 3.2L Carrera engine stapled to the front wheels?



I can't believe this hasn't been discussed yet:

My lap of terror in the Tesla D | The Verge

The 691 Horsepower ​Tesla Model S P85D Does 0-60 In 3.2 Seconds



AWD, second motor, extra 221Hp, for $4K extra on any of their cars.

No, I like the Tesla just the way it is. No gas engine needed...

[slodave]

BTW, how many cup holders does the Model S have?



And what's a new set of tires cost?



Battery pack?



Home Charging station?

Two cup holders,

Tires, not much more than a set for a S class Mercedes.

Battery pack won't be needed in most cases, as a lot are lease cars and will be turned in well before needing one.

If you want the high charging ability above 240v, about $2,500 (I recall) for the unit. 240v is plenty to charge the car overnight in almost every case.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Rapewta

I know.. Hydro, Nuclear, solar, Natural gas, Geo thermo, crude oil...(and other means) all are used to keep the Tesla on the road.
Is it really saving the planet? Is it really cost saving?

The reasoning is that it is easier and more efficient to control emissions at a single point source (electric generating plant) than on individual vehicle motors. Right now the electrics are also more efficient at turning the original fuel into miles (per the MPGe numbers)

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by nostatic

The reasoning is that it is easier and more efficient to control emissions at a single point source (electric generating plant) than on individual vehicle motors. Right now the electrics are also more efficient at turning the original fuel into miles (per the MPGe numbers)

How do generation efficiency and transmission losses factor into this? Since I don't know what numbers are being compared here, I can't do my own calculation.

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by nostatic

The reasoning is that it is easier and more efficient to control emissions at a single point source (electric generating plant) than on individual vehicle motors. Right now the electrics are also more efficient at turning the original fuel into miles (per the MPGe numbers)

The point is, there is no alternative to fuel sources for petroleum-based vehicles and there are many alternative fuel sources for electric based vehicle drive systems.

To prove this is true, just look at Germany.

Germany Sets New Record, Generating 74 Percent Of Power Needs From Renewable Energy | ThinkProgress

[porwolf]

Originally Posted by techweenie

The point is, there is no alternative to fuel sources for petroleum-based vehicles and there are many alternative fuel sources for electric based vehicle drive systems.

To prove this is true, just look at Germany.

Germany Sets New Record, Generating 74 Percent Of Power Needs From Renewable Energy | ThinkProgress

Yeah, but Germans also consume 1/2 the energy per capita compared to the US. Conservation and efficiency are big over there and no gas guzzling monster pickups either.