Robin Williams died?

[rusnak]

You want to mourn Mork more than ...say a double amputee veteran returning from Afghanistan because he made you laugh. Or a person who was diagnosed with depression and tried to end their life due to being homeless as a child to a drug addicted mother and being raped repeatedly by her mom's drug dealer? Yeah, this second person "turned it around" with help from me. I do not think anyone gets a special pass in life. We all feel pain.

That's the bottom line here.

I say B.S. to your need to make special dispensation for the rich and famous. I agree only with you in that all life is precious. But that's it. The rest of your post is just making excuses for behavior that needs none, on behalf of someone who did, in fact, have it all. You see, we are all responsible for our own actions in life. Even up to our last moment on Earth.Some people need to learn the concept of "Personal Responsibility". We are all equal in that regard. Do not confuse success with responsibility. You are confusing the two in a weak straw man argument. Fail.

Originally Posted by nostatic

What he said. Every life is precious, but some impact more than others. For anyone who argues that he should have just "turned it around" and his death isn't more important to people, then congrats - you're in the "everyone gets a trophy for playing" club.

There are winners and losers in life, there are talented and untalented, and there are those who are fairly even keel and those who are deeply troubled.

Note that RW had 20 years of sobriety (without intervention) before falling off the wagon some years back. That would qualify as "just suck it up." Then he went to rehab and got sober again - again sucking it up. But his demons ran quite deep.

Anyone who has lived with or dealt with truly depressed and/or truly creative people get this. People focus on the material aspects of his life - "he had it all." That is an external perspective, and has little to do with his real internal life. You may be able to turn your internal narrative around, but realize that you've not everyone. Different people have different abilities and capabilities.

Empathy is perhaps the most important trait to be learned. It is what allows us to live just a bit of other's lives, enables true leadership, and it also can help to keep our own world in check. Sadly it is lacking in our world.

[billybek]

Thanks for bringing this back on track, Nostatic.
RIP.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by nostatic

What he said. Every life is precious, but some impact more than others. For anyone who argues that he should have just "turned it around" and his death isn't more important to people, then congrats - you're in the "everyone gets a trophy for playing" club.

There are winners and losers in life, there are talented and untalented, and there are those who are fairly even keel and those who are deeply troubled.

Note that RW had 20 years of sobriety (without intervention) before falling off the wagon some years back. That would qualify as "just suck it up." Then he went to rehab and got sober again - again sucking it up. But his demons ran quite deep.

Anyone who has lived with or dealt with truly depressed and/or truly creative people get this. People focus on the material aspects of his life - "he had it all." That is an external perspective, and has little to do with his real internal life. You may be able to turn your internal narrative around, but realize that you've not everyone. Different people have different abilities and capabilities.

Empathy is perhaps the most important trait to be learned. It is what allows us to live just a bit of other's lives, enables true leadership, and it also can help to keep our own world in check. Sadly it is lacking in our world.

Mr Nostatus it is a sad thing for a man who brought so much joy to so many to wind up taking his own life. However life is full of struggle and loss for every human being, by taking his own life Mr Williams didn't stick it out with the team of human kind until the natural end. As such he let the team of human kind who grin and bear it down. This checking out of the hotel California did not make ones struggle in life any easier but adds to the list of losses and pain therein of people who fell by the wayside.

Anytime that I will ever see a piece of Mr Williams work it will not be a joyful experience but be overshadowed with the sad knowledge and memory that he took his own life.

[nostatic]

On the contrary, his pulling the rip cord might help others to reach out for help, and can serve as a reminder that no matter what our station or status in life, there is only now and those around us.

Those who are left to soldier on create their own perspective. It can be negative or hopeful. Or perhaps most appropriately, a little from column A, a little from column B. Yin/yang rules the day - same as it ever was.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by rusnak

It's not as if he spent two years hung from his nutsack by the fking Viet Cong in a fly infested jungle. It's not as if he should be given special consideration. People beat depression every day. People with far less money and far less to be happy about just deal with life and turn it around. Feel sorry for him? Ah, no. Not me. Yeah, he was the comedian who had it all and went nutzo and killed himself. Spade = Spade.

Originally Posted by rusnak

You want to mourn Mork more than ...say a double amputee veteran returning from Afghanistan because he made you laugh.

Interesting that you keep referencing veterans. As it turns out, RW served that audience admirably:

Why The Troops Loved Robin Williams

https://www.facebook.com/theUSO

I wonder if those vets that he entertained overseas would judge him as harshly as you do.

[berettafan]

There was a similar thread for some other celebrity recently...might've been Hoffman...

The point was made (don't recall by who) that it's not so much that celebrities are valued more but that more people 'know' the celebrity so more people have a reaction to it.

I thought it a good point.

[rusnak]

Nostatic,

Here's a bit of my personal experience dealing with depression/ suicide and substance abuse. I don't really think anyone will care about it, but hey. Maybe it'll help someone who is dealing with someone in a similar situation.

The girl I referenced was my ex GF. After we split up, she fell into a pattern of addiction and ended up in jail. She wrote to me and asked me to pray for her. What I decided to do was to change her life. I found her dad, who abandoned her and her mom when she was 7. I put him in touch with her. I got her out of jail and into a year long substance abuse program, which she is part of today, 4 years later. She was suicidal for about 5 months, which was scary. She tried to kill herself twice. The pain tricks the mind into thinking that there is no other way to end the pain. I helped her by not only paying for her program, but replacing all of her clothing that was stolen while she was in jail by a guy that she met in AA, after we parted ways. She forgave her dad. She forgave herself. She found God. She stopped using excuses for making bad choices.

So do not lecture me about empathy. Let me lecture not just "you" but those who need a crutch to take personal responsibility.

My theory on RW is that he never was allowed to hit bottom. He never was forced to learn how to deal with his pain. People around him would tell him how good he was, but obviously this is not what he needed. Depression is something that will kill you if you let it. Deciding for your loved ones that they are better off without you is the ultimate selfish act that there is. People with depression really don't want sympathy. They just want to get better. They must acquire the skill and ability to deal with their pain. Feel sorry for him? No. Feel sorry for his daughter? Hell yes. He took the coward's way out.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by rusnak

RW was also an addict. Now all sorts of people who have addictions to everything from pointless drama, to self-pity, to drugs from alcohol, to pot, to Vitamin "X" will point to his death and say "Robin Williams had the same disease that I have. I have a disease and I need my 'medicine'". Really? It's not as if he spent two years hung from his nutsack by the fking Viet Cong in a fly infested jungle. It's not as if he should be given special consideration. People beat depression every day. People with far less money and far less to be happy about just deal with life and turn it around. Feel sorry for him? Ah, no. Not me. Yeah, he was the comedian who had it all and went nutzo and killed himself. Spade = Spade.

Such ignorance.

[creaturecat]

I met him, more than once.
On film sets. In Vancouver.
He seemed like a kind and gentle person.
Pedalled (his ti road bike) to set, quite often, riding to the top of Mount Seymour.
He loved bicycles.

He was well liked in Vancouver. Never heard anyone (in film production) say a bad word about him.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Skytrooper

I have to agree with this. It is tough to hear (read), but very true.

It's complete ignorance. Nothing "true" about it.

[Baz]

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by rusnak

He took the coward's way out.

I'd imagine he had thought about doing this for a long, long time. I'd imagine he quit the game because he felt he had nothing left to contribute and was really tired. I can see how it looks like selfish cowardliness to some and feel for those he left behind but the guy made a lot of his time on this side and seems to have decided he'd done his time.

He's finally at ease now. Many are sad now but hopefully soon find real peace with his final choice by recognizing his vast body of work and accomplishments (choices as well) while here. RIP RW. You provided millions of people with joy while you were among us.

[Baz]

His life in pictures....

Robin Williams dies at the age of 63 | Gallery | Wonderwall

[Baz]

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by MMARSH

Personally and fortunately, I've never remotely felt that type of depression and didn't really understand it. Now, I know that real depression doesn't discriminate, it doesn't care if you "Have it all", what color you are or where you come from. Now, when I think of the pain and despair that someone, anyone must be in to do this, I think its sad.

Post of the year right there.

[speeder]

Suicide, particularly of a public figure, is an interesting Rorsach test of sorts. It elicits a real variety of reactions.

When I first read Rusnak's posts, I thought of what an empathy lacking simple minded person he must be and felt sympathy. Then I remembered that suicide makes a lot of people angry. Rightfully so, in many cases. It is the ultimate selfish act but I do not necessarily say that in a condemning way- who has more of a right to say whether I live or die than me?

Empathy is the important quality that allows some of us to understand someone else's experience that is not like our own. People with empathy make the world a better place but they are being fought every inch of the way by people without empathy, across the globe.

I'm not going to try to explain depression or other psychological illness to people who have no interest in understanding the human condition. But I will tell you that you have no clue and would appear a lot smarter by staying mute.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by rusnak

He took the coward's way out.

Yes, rusnak, "mental illness" (including "depression" HAHAHA!) is hogwash, nothing more than a pitiful excuse for not "manning up" and taking responsibility for one's life!!!

And yes, rusnak, "mentally ill" people are, by and large, cowards!!!

Ohhhh, rusnak, you are a truly enlightened individual of great intellectual and emotional depth.

[herr_oberst]

RIP Robin Williams.

Good (archival) interview with him on the Marc Maron podcast this morning. A side of him I had really never seen.

[Rickysa]

OK I guess you are some sort of precious snowflake. Poor you.

No quite the contrary, although that is not at all germane to the discussion.

Clinical depression is a disease of chemical imbalance and cannot be "gotten over" any more than a diabetic can "get over" his illness.

I am happy for your friend that was able to deal with all the misfortune in her life, but that may well be an apples to oranges comparison.

I had a friend that once told me that "the only thing you can control in the world is your mind"...I didn't have the heart to tell him just how ignorant that statement was.

[74-911]

Originally Posted by MMARSH

One of the most intelligent and gentle people I know committed suicide several years ago. Put a gun to his head and ended it all. He had a family and many friends who cared for him dearly. We knew he was depressed and he was seeing someone to try and deal with it.

Personally and fortunately, I've never remotely felt that type of depression and didn't really understand it. Now, I know that real depression doesn't discriminate, it doesn't care if you "Have it all", what color you are or where you come from. Now, when I think of the pain and despair that someone, anyone must be in to do this, I think its sad.

thank you for taking the time to post an intelligent response re: depression. Anyone who thinks real depression is a "choice" and all you have to do to get out of it is "get a grip" is clueless.