At least this one's going to jail.

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by J P Stein

"'He's got the gun" is a over-simplification of the power he can yield all over your head. OK, maybe I should have used "He's got the badge".

I wouldn't expect a cop to over-react to the statement about your carrying.
Do you volunteer that information at every traffic stop? I've never been asked.......as I sit there with both hands on the wheel.

In Michigan, you are required by law to inform the officer that you are licensed as soon as is practicable if carrying. Even if not carrying it is highly recommended. I'm not sure if this law applies to any police interaction or to traffic stops only.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by J P Stein

"'He's got the gun" is a over-simplification of the power he can yield all over your head. OK, maybe I should have used "He's got the badge".

I wouldn't expect a cop to over-react to the statement about your carrying.
Do you volunteer that information at every traffic stop? I've never been asked.......as I sit there with both hands on the wheel.

Some folks say that having your concealed carry permit in your hand when the cop walks up is the best thing. Of course, this is if you have one, and if you actually are carrying at the time. A firearm inside the vehicle? It's good to get that info out of the way right up front. A nervous cop is a dangerous cop, so you don't want them to be nervous.

If you hand them your CCW first, they will ask if you have a firearm on your person or in the car. And answering truthfully is a good idea right then. It is also advisable to tell them exactly where it's located, on your person or in the car.

I got pulled over for a burnt brake lamp while going to the range. My rifle was in the trunk. The subject never came up, but if it had, I would have said that my rifle was in the trunk. Then it might have got interesting if the cop would have asked to see it. That gets into an area where we're talking about 4th Amendment issues, and getting into that at the side of the road is a hard call to make. I doubt I would have made an issue - the rifle is mine, and never had another owner. It's in a case, in semi-disassembled condition at all times (except when I'm using it, LOL) and the ammunition is always kept in a separate case. Completely legal in both the states I frequent on the public roadway. If I had a CC pistol, then a traffic stop could be more "interesting" if I were carrying at the time of the stop. I guess it's good that I don't get pulled over very often.

[Crowbob]

In Michigan a rifle must be in a case (soft case counts as a case), trigger-locked, unloaded, no magazine and in the trunk. If no trunk it must not be easily accessable by driver or passengers and ammo must not be in the same location as the firearm.

[HHI944]

Jesus......I've been known to throw my SBR behind the seat of my truck if I have to go through downtown savannah.....no case, magazine in, round chambered.

[LakeCleElum]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

In Michigan a rifle must be in a case (soft case counts as a case), trigger-locked, unloaded, no magazine and in the trunk. If no trunk it must not be easily accessable by driver or passengers and ammo must not be in the same location as the firearm.

Can't do that around here. The coyote would be long gone......

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by dfjdgyy

This is inexcusable. This officer must be made an example of.

In reality, the pattern is that the police self-investigate and exonerate, forcing victims' relatives to launch a civil action that takes years and the taxpayers ultimately pay while the cops walk. Now, granted, many don't get to resume police work locally, but direct punishment is rare and indirect punishment seems random.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Spam. Bill, you will want to edit your quote of the high school drop out.

Originally Posted by dfjdgyy

this is inexcusable. This officer must be made an example of. [im g]http://lifeh ealt hus.com/image/ images/ 80.gif[/im g]

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by techweenie

In reality, the pattern is that the police self-investigate and exonerate, forcing victims' relatives to launch a civil action that takes years and the taxpayers ultimately pay while the cops walk. Now, granted, many don't get to resume police work locally, but direct punishment is rare and indirect punishment seems random.

The closest large city to me just went through this sort of thing. Cop beat a guy within an inch of his life with his baton. Guy died before getting to hospital. It later came out that the guy was buying a 2L of Coke, and that's all he had on him, and the surveillance video shows the poor guy made no moves at all to threaten anyone.

Cops and prosecutor circle the wagons. Cop got a three-month paid vacation. Then the Feds stepped in. Found out the cop lied about the whole encounter. Cops still trying to circle the wagons. So, folks start talking about a citizen's review board.

Holy Crap. You'd think that somebody had just suggested that the cops patrol in Smart Cars, wearing sun dresses. Yeah, no citizen review board came to be. But the original cop in the story went to jail for lying to the Feds (not for beating some guy to death, though) and the city paid a civil suit in a relatively modest amount that most certainly went mostly to the lawyers.

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

The closest large city to me just went through this sort of thing. Cop beat a guy within an inch of his life with his baton. Guy died before getting to hospital. It later came out that the guy was buying a 2L of Coke, and that's all he had on him, and the surveillance video shows the poor guy made no moves at all to threaten anyone.

Cops and prosecutor circle the wagons. Cop got a three-month paid vacation. Then the Feds stepped in. Found out the cop lied about the whole encounter. Cops still trying to circle the wagons. So, folks start talking about a citizen's review board.

Holy Crap. You'd think that somebody had just suggested that the cops patrol in Smart Cars, wearing sun dresses. Yeah, no citizen review board came to be. But the original cop in the story went to jail for lying to the Feds (not for beating some guy to death, though) and the city paid a civil suit in a relatively modest amount that most certainly went mostly to the lawyers.

[techweenie]

This one was somewhat disturbing as well...

NM cop threatened to shoot ‘f*cking lunatic’ in the penis 2 hours before killing him

[afterburn 549]

Is that not what they said at the war trials ?

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by techweenie

This one was somewhat disturbing as well...

NM cop threatened to shoot ‘f*cking lunatic’ in the penis 2 hours before killing him

And he's getting a paid vacation out of the deal, too.

[afterburn 549]

In the 60s there were a LOT of COP brutality demonstrations ( May be riots too )
I think it is about time to stand up again.
I have nothing but praise for the good ones.
But i loath the bad ones.
If they would only "police" from the inside it would be a better force.
Respect is earned. It only takes one idiot to bring dwn the whole force.
If any Leos read this maybe apply it. ( I know there are at least a few on here )

[techweenie]

I'm quite sure the 'bad ones' are less than 10%. But too many of the 90% cover for them.

[afterburn 549]

Originally Posted by techweenie

I'm quite sure the 'bad ones' are less than 10%. But too many of the 90% cover for them.

Exactly.
The "BRO" thing gets in the way of the "right" thing to do.

[speeder]

I've always put it like this: The LAPD has ~7000 officers. Let's say that 95% of them are "good cops", ie. not corrupt, don't brutalize people, can handle the heat and stress of the job w/o shooting the wrong person, etc...

That leaves 350 "bad cops" out on the street every day and man, can they do some damage. I'm not saying that there are that many today but I think that at one time there was. In NYC, where they have twice the size force, you can read about a really bad one almost every day.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

Meh, Denis is full of Keyboard Kourage. Not worth the effort.

Originally Posted by speeder

Hey, go fk yourself. I've tried to be patient and ignore you but you're getting on my nerves. You are boring the snot out of me with your little vendetta. I slapped you down for being a phony and spreading bad advice on another sub-forum, (and completely slandering another member's Porsche for sale). Your reaction is a lot of penis envy and snide remarks and I'm sick of it.

You're a completely phony Porsche expert with your chest puffed-up and head full of bullschit. You're not a witty or particularly valuable member in other ways. Just go away.

It would be incredibly easy to determine which one of us has "keyboard courage" only. I say it's you. Prove me wrong.

Wow - yet another Denis (or is that "Denise"?) meltdown, replete with a thinly veiled threat... I've lost track of how many of us have managed to make this sorry little internet tough girl come completely unhinged like this, over some pretty trivial stuff. Yet all the while she insists she has a good life... You're right, she's not worth the effort...

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

Making the cop feel comfortable makes all kinds of sense. If that means you act like the cop has total control of the situation, then so be it. It's not like folks don't do stuff ALL THE TIME in a situational way. Those of us who are married understand this on an instinctual level. The lady of the house can be random sometimes, so we roll with it.

Getting pulled over is no different. Considering how dangerous traffic stops are for cops, you have to understand their mindset. This is not saying that the global "us vs. them" attitude or militarization of police is acceptable. That's not the point at all. The point is to make it through the traffic stop without getting shot, arrested, or otherwise harmed. Up to and including getting a warning, rather than a citation.

Sure, you can yell at the cop and tell them how you pay their salary and how much you know your rights. But at the side of the road, that is SERIOUSLY counterproductive. At the side of the road is NOT the place to make your stand. Especially if you have actually committed a traffic infraction. If you have, you should STFU and hope to minimize the damage, instead of pretending you're an internet patriot.

Some of the best advice on this thread. It's not all that hard (at least for most of us) to be polite and reasonable. One will never win a battle of wills or egos on the side of the road with a cop. He will find a way to "win" (in his eyes), and at least make your life miserable in any way he can.

That said, thank God for the dash cam in this particular case. I would bet, however, that this cop never does any time for this. We had a similar case in which a cop shot and killed a native American here in Seattle, wherein the cop was fired but never did any time.

[nynor]

Originally Posted by techweenie

In reality, the pattern is that the police self-investigate and exonerate, forcing victims' relatives to launch a civil action that takes years and the taxpayers ultimately pay while the cops walk. Now, granted, many don't get to resume police work locally, but direct punishment is rare and indirect punishment seems random.

exactly....

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

The closest large city to me just went through this sort of thing. Cop beat a guy within an inch of his life with his baton. Guy died before getting to hospital. It later came out that the guy was buying a 2L of Coke, and that's all he had on him, and the surveillance video shows the poor guy made no moves at all to threaten anyone.

Cops and prosecutor circle the wagons. Cop got a three-month paid vacation. Then the Feds stepped in. Found out the cop lied about the whole encounter. Cops still trying to circle the wagons. So, folks start talking about a citizen's review board.

Holy Crap. You'd think that somebody had just suggested that the cops patrol in Smart Cars, wearing sun dresses. Yeah, no citizen review board came to be. But the original cop in the story went to jail for lying to the Feds (not for beating some guy to death, though) and the city paid a civil suit in a relatively modest amount that most certainly went mostly to the lawyers.

and now we are totally on the same page. how did that happen?

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Wow - yet another Denis meltdown [...]
Some of the best advice on this thread. It's not all that hard (at least for most of us) to be polite and reasonable. One will never win a battle of wills or egos on the side of the road with a cop. He will find a way to "win" (in his eyes), and at least make your life miserable in any way he can.

That said, thank God for the dash cam in this particular case. I would bet, however, that this cop never does any time for this. We had a similar case in which a cop shot and killed a native American here in Seattle, wherein the cop was fired but never did any time.

Yeah, I have Denis on "ignore" because his postings add no value. One of those guys on the internet that can't disagree without being disagreeable, I guess. Of zero consequence. Bonus - I don't have to see anything he writes unless someone quotes it.

I have a bit of sensitivity to this subject. A close family member is married to an African American. The advice of how to avoid a traffic stop by not being black or Hispanic? I've been told some seriously head-shaking stories. Together, they own a late-model Mercedes sedan and a new Mustang that has all the power options - 500HP or something. When the white member of the family is driving, that person never is pulled over or harassed in any way by LEOs. When the black person is driving, or one of the kids (both adult, and both appear "black"), papers-checks are regular occurrences. The traffic stop advice I gave in this thread is a direct repetition of the advice given to the black members of the family. I have a fairly heavy right foot, so I have found myself in traffic stops a few times in the last decade, and the ONLY time I got a citation was when my insurance data was not up-to-date. I had insurance docs, but from the wrong car. I had inadvertently swapped them in distribution. That was a "fix-it" ticket. In any case, I follow the advice I have given, and I think that making the stop easier for the LEO makes a difference in whether a warning or a citation is given. I also think it helps to find a safe place to get off the road.

It might be a mere coincidence that my black family members are pulled over so often on the same roads in the same car that my white family member travels without the traffic stops. If I were to make a wager, "coincidence" isn't where my money would be laid. But they do follow the advice, and they have never been asked to get out of the car in all those stops. As an aside, I also take issue with police departments becoming more militarized and adopting the "us vs. them" attitude. I also object to them using the term "civilian" in reference to a non-cop. As far as I'm concerned, anyone not currently serving in the U.S. armed forces is a civilian. Another manifestation of the "us vs. them" mentality, I guess.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by nynor

and now we are totally on the same page. how did that happen?

A sure sign of the apocalypse.

Or, the written form of communication allows for miscommunication at times.

If I gave offense, I apologize.