Kid got n trouble in schoo. What would you do?

look 171 · 10-22-2014, 10:11 PM

My little 8 year boy, got busted by his 3rd grade teacher yesterday. All his teachers love him including his current that busted him, and never gets into trouble. Got a phone call about going to see the principle today.

He broke his pencil (my pencil that I gave him early this week) and tossed it in the trash in the back of the class room. Some kids got hold of it and started to scrape the broken pencil all over the furnitures and the wall. Teacher caught them and busted all that were involved. My kid was sitting in the front and the teacher knew it, since it was his pencil, he's now pulled into this mess. They even lectured him about wastefulness because he threw away a broken pencil

. The principle threaten to suspend him and all the others because they defaced public property. Due to district policy, she can't suspend them (story for another time). I was biting my tongue and sided with the principle only to have a little talk with him after we got home knowing it wasn't his fault. He's ok, but was really upset by the whole thing how he's was framed and has to do paper pickup after school.

I wanted to rip that principle a freaking new one due to her inability to distinguish right from wrong (I would have no problem telling her about waste unless she was paying for my pencils). She was a bit arrogant from her tone of voice was what pissed me off the most. I didn't say anything to her in front of my kid because I didn't want to undermine her authority in front of my boy. That was not the time and place. I am thinking about going back and have a little chit chat with her. My wife wants me to let it go. The more time goes by, the more I think my wife is right. Damnit, she's always right.

Any thoughts? I know its a small, tiny, worthless little issue.

snbush67 · snbush67's Garage

All schoos are stupid, send him to school they are much better at teaching children and more tolerant.

mikester · 10-22-2014, 10:36 PM

It sounds to me like your son was an innocent bystander.

Some other kids pulled garbage out of the can and then defacing school property. It happened to be our son's garbage.

I can't imagine the folks at my kids school pulling something like this and my kid gets in trouble ALL THE TIME. Well, not so much this year but last year - yep. Principal knows us well.

ledhedsymbols · 10-22-2014, 10:46 PM

Without getting into a bunch of back story... My parents never backed me on anything. When I was a kid it was always my fault, no matter what the circumstances. That being said, if the tale is 100% true I think it's important for your boy to have you go to bat for him. Even if the petty dictator administrator holds her line and nothing changes, at least he knows you've got his back. So long as you handle yourself like an adult, I don't see a negative for you. Worst case, he gets screwed over by the administration but he knows he can trust his pop.

look 171 · 10-22-2014, 10:48 PM

Yep, his garbage, and his wastefulness got him in trouble and the big lady wanted to show the parents and kids who the boss is

look 171 · 10-22-2014, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ledhedsymbols

Without getting into a bunch of back story... My parents never backed me on anything. When I was a kid it was always my fault, no matter what the circumstances. That being said, if the tale is 100% true I think it's important for your boy to have you go to bat for him. Even if the petty dictator administrator holds her line and nothing changes, at least he knows you've got his back. So long as you handle yourself like an adult, I don't see a negative for you. Worst case, he gets screwed over by the administration but he knows he can trust his pop.

My thinking is similar to your parents. You just don't get into trouble in school or anywhere else. Yep, your last sentence is what kept me wanting to go back to have a chit chat. Maybe I should just tell him I will go and talk to her but just never go so he know I have his back.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

I'd have a chat with the principal and perhaps his or her boss, not that it'll matter. Suspension is nothing to joke around with anymore. It's not like when you or I went to school - now it's something that could seriously impact his chances of getting into college, getting a job, etc. someday. It's so competitive out there now that stupid little things like this really could make the difference between him and someone else getting a position someday (I've seen it happen first hand where a job went to person "A" versus person "B" because of truly stupid and irrelevant crap on a background check). It's really gotten nuts how once-innocuous things are becoming part of peoples' records now and following them around for the rest of their lives. He's in third grade for crying out loud and did nothing wrong. If the principal admits that the suspension thing was a scare tactic perhaps it's a bit more forgivable but I doubt that'll happen (the "never admit you're wrong" defensive attitude will likely manifest itself instead) but it's worth a try.

I'd be pretty pissed off about someone threatening to potentially ruin (or at least hamper) my kid's future without clear evidence that he'd actually done something to deserve it. Even the kids who did the "defacing" don't really deserve it IMHO - it's pencil for chrissakes. It washes out. Make them wash it off and go on with life. Perspective. Sounds like the principal is on a power trip and needs to get knocked down a peg or two before she really does screw up some kid's life just to stroke her own ego.

It pisses me off to no end that out so-called "educators" now see parents as an impediment or as obstacles to be overcome rather than partners in helping to prepare kids for adulthood, each with their respective roles to play. I have two close family members who are teachers and you wouldn't believe the stupid crap that they're subjected to by administrators and peers.

If my kid had been suspended for this, I'd have shown up with my attorney and raised holy hell.

look 171 · 10-22-2014, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikester

It sounds to me like your son was an innocent bystander.

Some other kids pulled garbage out of the can and then defacing school property. It happened to be our son's garbage.

I can't imagine the folks at my kids school pulling something like this and my kid gets in trouble ALL THE TIME. Well, not so much this year but last year - yep. Principal knows us well.

You know Mike, its what kids do sometime and they know its wrong, but go ahead and do it because scratching out that pencil on the wall is just so damn fun. would you have gone back and talk with the principle knowing well that it is a very small issue and that she might deal stuff like this with 10 times daily.

look 171 · 10-22-2014, 10:59 PM

I never thought about the long term impact POP.

Holger · 10-22-2014, 11:03 PM

I would not get involved.
Let your son explain and make the talking. Too many parents are backing up theire kids way to much today, the own kids never do anything wrong. The atmosphere in schools (between kids/parents and teachers) is really agressiv because of that!

Quote:

I'd be pretty pissed off about someone threatening to potentially ruin (or at least hamper) my kid's future without clear evidence that he'd actually done something to deserve it.

Oh my God, the kid is 8! I dont think this would ruin his life/future!

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

Don't be so sure... In the age of big data you have to assume that everyone will know everything about you and your history and that it can and will play a part in determining who gets certain opportunities and who doesn't. I'm not saying that a third-grade suspension will necessarily ruin the kid's life, but it certainly will follow him around and might Impact him adversely in ways we can't predict or foresee right now. It's not something that should be tossed around in cavalier fashion as a threat (unless it was simply a scare tactic to use against the kids and she really had no intention or grounds to ever really follow through).

I still don't like the idea of a government official threatening someone's child with a punishment far exceeding what's warranted by the crime - certainly for this child who committed NO crime and wasn't even a co-conspirator!

I realize order and discipline are important in school but it has gotten absolutely insane. Schools are like prisons now - metal detectors, cops, "zero tolerance" idiocy for everything... I realize also that a lot of this is due to the total apathy of a lot of parents who simply dump their "problems" on the system and expect miracles to happen but it seems to have resulted in ALL parents (and their kids in many cases) being treated like impediments or bothersome pests to be shoved out of the way so the schools can get back to doing whatever it is they think is so much more important than actually educating (indoctrination? pushing personal agendas? experimenting with new methods to garner favor with superiors?)

Granted the only ones that know what really happened here are the kids and possibly the teacher but assuming look's son really is innocent of wrongdoing here I'd have a one-on-one with the principal to feel out what the motive for her show of force was. If she explains she was just trying to put a little fear in the kids to get / keep their attention, fine. If she gets defensive or cops an attitude for being second-guessed by a stupid no-nothing parent ("the nerve! what do YOU know?!?") I'd run it up the flagpole and see how she likes a blemish on HER permanent record.

The notion that a kid being suspended (or God forbid expelled) from school these days is the same as what it was 20, 30 years ago when we were kids is utterly ludicrous though. Such things are NOT benign anymore and can / will come back to haunt people in ways they might not expect later.

ledhedsymbols · 10-23-2014, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by look 171

My thinking is similar to your parents. You just don't get into trouble in school or anywhere else. Yep, your last sentence is what kept me wanting to go back to have a chit chat. Maybe I should just tell him I will go and talk to her but just never go so he know I have his back.

Trust me, mine is an extreme case and I have never forgotten nor forgiven my parents for hanging me out to dry. 'Nuff said, not trying to hijack your thread.

There is a big difference between "my little Johnney can do no wrong" and letting him know that you will back him if he is getting screwed through no fault of his own. Throwing away a broken pencil and some how he's at fault? Are you fricking kidding me? I don't know you or your boy, but I trust my "Spidey Sense" when dealing with other people. Think about it, talk to the boy and if you think he's walking the true path do the right thing by him. Don't lie to him about talking to the principal. You are the example, and you never know when and how he might see through it if you aren't holding yourself to that standard.

Holger · 10-23-2014, 12:44 AM

P-O-P, I dont say he should accept a suspension. Give the kid the arguments and the standing to "defend" himself instead of standing there yourself "with a loaded gun".

With the right words the 8-year old should not be punished at all! For what? For throwing away a broken pencil? C'mon ...
He just have to repeat that and nothing else. The pencil was broken and I throw it in the trash. I have done nothing more.
Unless there was anything else he has nothing to be afraid of.

recycled sixtie · recycled sixtie's Garage

I remember many years ago the teacher coming up behind me and whacking me on the head. My friend got the same treatment but he was the one talking. I was the one listening and that was the punishment I got because the teacher did not know who was talking!.

Teachers make errors in judgement too. Your wife is right - stay out of it. I remember for my daughter I would go bat for her which was the wrong thing to do in hindsight and of course my wife told me so.

Let your son handle it. In a few weeks it will seem like a bump in the road. Teacher needs parental intervention like a hole in the head.

Guy

Holger · 03:20 AM

^this

If you accuse the teachers of beeing wrong they will tell you many unpleasant things your kid has done.
The same if you try to talk to other parents about things THEIRE kids have done to your kid. You will get a ****load back. Because everybody is over-protecting theire kids!

(Oh, don't ask me how I know!)

afterburn 549 · 10-23-2014, 02:09 AM

Show them how stupid they are. Point out in real life one is not guilty for what others do with trash.
Then put him in Private school where he will get a real education.
Dont play their stupid game.

pavulon · 10-23-2014, 02:49 AM

IMO, if the OP has accurately told the entire story, consider taking the boy to the superintendent and then with your son present, simply explain to both of them that in this situation, the boy's responsibility was to put his broken pencil in the trash. At that point he did his part and did it correctly.

The next point needs to be that after the boy did his part correctly, choices were made by other kids and then adults. People make mistakes. Roll with the punches.

Life's not fair. See things for what they are, do your part and then move on.

ymmv.

KFC911 · 10-23-2014, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pavulon

.... People make mistakes. Roll with the punches.

Life's not fair. See things for what they are, do your part and then move on.

ymmv.

^^^ this. Let the boy know "you've got his back" if he's in the "right", and YOU will "deal with him" if he's in the wrong as he continues to develop imo. Then "move on"...life is TOO short and one must "picks their battles". Your boy probably already knows this aspect, so what is there to gain?

onewhippedpuppy · 10-23-2014, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by look 171

My thinking is similar to your parents. You just don't get into trouble in school or anywhere else. Yep, your last sentence is what kept me wanting to go back to have a chit chat. Maybe I should just tell him I will go and talk to her but just never go so he know I have his back.

Always a tough spot. I think you should have his back in this one. But whatever you do, don't tell him that you're going to do something when you have no intention of doing so. Kids can smell a hypocrite.

Zero tolerance discipline policies are there for one reason - remove any requirement for the educator to show discretion that might open them up to legal liability. Hence why you get the exact same punishment being applied to everybody, even if it's totally unfair. A good friend is the principal of a large KS high school, these policies totally piss him off.

Baz · Baz's Garage

Send the school a letter stating your kid was not guilty of the vandalism. Keep a copy for his "file" along with any response from the school. Then sit your son down and let him know how politics work in places like schools and places of employment. That would be some productive bonding time.

I applaud you for caring so much and staying involved with your son.