Landscape Lighting, LED and Electrical Theory Questions

[daepp]

I am looking for some good ideas on how light this wall of trees (podacarpus). They were planted two years ago and make a good privacy screen, but I have no idea how to light them.

Typically I have uplit individual palm trees with one light each. This complicated by there being so many trees together, and I suppose I will want them ultimately to just merge into one wall-o-trees.

But also complicating things is that our pair of desert tortoises roam and dig around this area. So there can't be any lights staked into the ground, and no below grade wires.

The only thought I have had so far is to use wire ties on lights that are about 12-18 inches off the ground, and do maybe 4 trees, but I really have no idea if that will be the least bit aesthetically appealing.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[daepp]

I think I will be switching to LED outdoor lights for this and existing lamps, and since they are such lower wattage fixtures, should I be spending the dough to get lower wattage transformers? Or if they have less load on them are they automatically pulling less juice through my electrical meter?

And finally, has anyone actually made the switch to LED outdoors? I tried just one fixture last year but I bought too "hot" of a light, and it was too blue for me. I've been told they're getting better but cost keeps me from just diving in. Again, any advice would be appreciated.

[rwest]

I think ground lights will look the best, could you go deeper and put the wire into conduit for tortoise proofing?

[Baz]

Hi David,

I routinely install landscape lighting as part of my business so here's some thoughts.....

LED is the way to go. Much less energy consumption as you said plus you can install in daisy chain without much loss in voltage. And yes - a less powerful transformer can be use. I am typically using 150w transformers for the average job.

Also with LED you can have nice colors as well as white!

Regarding white (per your comment) typically you are selecting either warm white or cool white.



LED's are measured by temperature in Kelvins. The higher the temp. the bluer the shade of white. When you purchase your bulbs just check the temp rating or usually the package will tell you which white it is.

Regarding colors.....yes you can buy different colours but what I have found the best is to buy "color changing" bulbs so you can change things up if you want. Some of these color changing bulbs also have 'white' as an option so you only have to buy 1 bulb.

Regarding your situation....I'm not sure the aspects of your tortoises in how it impacts the design but anything that shows wiring will be unsightly. So what if you buried the wires deeper than they typically dig? And maybe in PVC conduit perhaps?

Regarding fixtures...to get the widest beam a PAR 36 bulb would be the one to use. In a well light...like this:



You can buy these Par 36 bulbs in LED - I posted a thread a while back about the color-changing ones and they are indeed very cool.

You could hook up a couple and play with spacing before doing anything more permanent. You may end up with only 3 total lights. Sometimes less is more.

So.....150v transformer, daisy chain with 12 gauge cable, and LED well lights and you're done.

Feel free to reply with questions or comments - be happy to respond.

I'll post that thread of mine next email.

[Baz]

Landscape lighting info

[scottmandue]

As Baz said you definitely want the 'warm' 2800K LED's

Any way to mount lights on the eve of the house and shoot across at the trees?

[look 171]

Bez is dead on. The well light he mentioned are best, IMO, then there's the ones that are staked into the ground but that isn't going to cut it for ya. How aabout running the wires along the back wall and tie the lights onto the trunk of the tree to bring light up into the trees that way. It can be tie up in the back so the fixture isn't seen. Install a light every 6-8' would be best, IMO. I have never been a huge fan of very bright landscape lighting. Just enough to draw attention to a certain ares and bounce lights off it. Personally, I always install a bigger commercial, not those Home Depot Malibu cheap transformers to prevent voltage drop. Over the years, I have purchased a few light from these folks. Quality and well build, and not pay designer prices. VOLTŪ LED Landscape Lighting | Outdoor Lights I believe you get trade discount.

2700 K bulb LED are best (MR16 Halogen are still my favorite), very similar to the old fashion halogen bulb color.

Jeff

[snbush67]

Would the tortoises mind battery packs and lighting mounted on thier shells?

[strupgolf]

You could put some l/voltage lighting inside that brick wall you have there and point them towards the trees. No inground wires or stakes.

[Baz]

Couple more comments on who to buy from.

What I have seen in the big box stores (specifically on LED fixtures) is many of them do not have the capacity to replace just the LED bulb itself, should it burn out. IOW the whole fixture must be replaced. That is not ideal.

Another important factor is the material the fixtures are made of.

The high end fixtures are usually made of bronze, brass, or copper. And they are very pricey.

I have been buying my fixtures from this eBay seller (based in CA):

LED Landscape Lights, Path Area Lighting items in Landscape Lights 4 Less store on eBay!

Their fixtures are powder-coated aluminum and have held up really well in my coastal location where salt and moisture can really eat away at things.

Their pricing is not much more than what you would pay at the big box stores - but the quality is vastly superior.

The 3 main types of fixtures and bulbs that are commonly used are Path lights (G4 bi-pin bulb), Directional lights - aka uplights, spot lights, or bullet lights (MR 16 bulb), and Well Lights (Par 36).

For all of the above (G4 bi-pin, MR16, and Par 36) LED bulbs are available.

There are some other types of fixtures and bulbs but the three above are the most common.

In conclusion, you are better off to get a fixture which has a replaceable bulb, get one made out of decent material, and an LED bulb suitable for that application.

One more thing about cable...you can buy that at the box stores or if you have an irrigation supply store nearby they should sell it too. Funny thing about pricing on cable...usually the larger size (12 gauge) costs more but since it is in such high demand by contractors it is more cost effective than the smaller size (14 or 16 gauge). You really want to use 12 gauge if possible for the least amount of voltage drop.

Back to eBay - there's a lot of sellers ( here's a good one) based in the orient selling LED stuff and most of it is very decent quality at a great price so keep that in mind.

For example....here's the color-changing LED MR 16 bulb I mentioned. They're really cool!

New AC DC 12V Delicate MR16 3W RGB LED 16 Color Changing Light Lamp w Remote | eBay

As are the LED Par 36 color-changing bulbs i mentioned in my other thread. I just received a shipment from that company yesterday with some more of those plus some other goodies.

If I think of anything more I'll pass it along......

[Jim Richards]

Great thread, guys. This is something I need to keep in mind when I shift from remodeling the house to re-landscaping.

[daepp]

So much good information - thank you thank you thank you.

First, re the tortoises, they are natural diggers. They will go down 2 feet at the warmest times of the year. They are also very persistent and can move very heavy objects with time, so even below grade conduit is unworkable.

There is only a little bit of the house/eave close enough, so I could only get one edge of the space, but I have to admit I hadn't thought of lighting from an angle like that. I am going to give that a lot of thought for another location - it might look really cool.

That par 30 well light - Baz, if I understood you correctly you liked that as it cast the widest beam - is that right? I can't put it in the ground, but were you thinking of it raised off the ground?

Using the blocks - the cinder blocks up the middle are just a temporary separator when the male won't leave the female alone - I'm guessing he missed the Sex Over 50 Thread.

The brick capped walls are often walked on by visiting children, so I'm not sure that will work, plus I somehow thought you wanted to hide the light source, no?

Much like Jeff suggested, I ran 12 gauge wire across the back of all the trees at about 24" off the ground. At each tree I made a loop about 12 " down behind the tree and back up, and then on to the next tree. That way I can pick which tree to light.

I think my biggest challenges at this point are that I have purchased what may well be crap fixtures (but they can be returned so I will research those online sources above), and whether strapping uplights (or something like the par 30 well fixture?) to the bottom of a tree will be too close to it to look good?

Again - thank you very much.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Great thread, guys. This is something I need to keep in mind when I shift from remodeling the house to re-landscaping.

Oh no

[Jim Richards]

Hahaha! Thanks for the encouragement, Jeff!

[chocolatelab]

The previous owner of our property loved landscape lighting. There are 7 transformers and 100 plus landscape lights on the property.

He used a company called Unique Landscape lighting. Located in San Marcos I believe. They are a manufacturer and sell via distribution.

Their website is chock full of amazing hints tips and examples of different types of lighting.

I have started to replace some of the fixtures as they are hitting 10 plus years old.

I found a company called volt lighting. VOLTŪ LED Landscape Lighting | Outdoor Lights

Quality of the product is amazing and the prices and service have been amazing.

definitely check them out before you buy anything at the local hardware stores.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by chocolatelab

The previous owner of our property loved landscape lighting. There are 7 transformers and 100 plus landscape lights on the property.

He used a company called Unique Landscape lighting. Located in San Marcos I believe. They are a manufacturer and sell via distribution.

Their website is chock full of amazing hints tips and examples of different types of lighting.

I have started to replace some of the fixtures as they are hitting 10 plus years old.

I found a company called volt lighting. VOLTŪ LED Landscape Lighting | Outdoor Lights

Quality of the product is amazing and the prices and service have been amazing.

definitely check them out before you buy anything at the local hardware stores.

Hey Chris.....if your fixtures are from Unique they have a lifetime warranty. Also if you don't have LED bulbs I would go that route considering how many lights you have the savings in electricity over time would justify the initial expense.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by daepp

So much good information - thank you thank you thank you.

First, re the tortoises, they are natural diggers. They will go down 2 feet at the warmest times of the year. They are also very persistent and can move very heavy objects with time, so even below grade conduit is unworkable.

There is only a little bit of the house/eave close enough, so I could only get one edge of the space, but I have to admit I hadn't thought of lighting from an angle like that. I am going to give that a lot of thought for another location - it might look really cool.

That par 30 well light - Baz, if I understood you correctly you liked that as it cast the widest beam - is that right? I can't put it in the ground, but were you thinking of it raised off the ground?

Using the blocks - the cinder blocks up the middle are just a temporary separator when the male won't leave the female alone - I'm guessing he missed the Sex Over 50 Thread.

The brick capped walls are often walked on by visiting children, so I'm not sure that will work, plus I somehow thought you wanted to hide the light source, no?

Much like Jeff suggested, I ran 12 gauge wire across the back of all the trees at about 24" off the ground. At each tree I made a loop about 12 " down behind the tree and back up, and then on to the next tree. That way I can pick which tree to light.

I think my biggest challenges at this point are that I have purchased what may well be crap fixtures (but they can be returned so I will research those online sources above), and whether strapping uplights (or something like the par 30 well fixture?) to the bottom of a tree will be too close to it to look good?

Again - thank you very much.

David - the Well Light is designed to be embedded into the ground so only the top of the housing is almost flush with the grade. Then you can drop the bulb down into the housing deep enough to block it from shinning in anyone's face but also angled toward the target to be lit up. (the bulb sits in a chassis that slides up and down inside the housing).

That said it doesn't sound like this type of light fixture is what you want.

If you are mounting above the ground then a directional light with an MR 16 bulb might work. You can get brackets to mount them with instead of the traditional stakes. (1/2 FPT)

Like this:
Tree Deck Mounting Bracket in Rust Finish for Landscape Lights | eBay



The other thought I had was going to a solar light that does not use any cable. But solar lights are not as nice as low voltage. IMO so there's a trade off off in illumination quality. I never use solar myself, BTW.

[look 171]

Agree with ya on the solar lights. The technology isn't there yet.

Most folks think its full brightness is the way to go, but I really think full brightness (depending on the situation) should bounce off trees to create a very soft light along with other type of fixtures elsewhere for walkways and other areas. I often suggest spot lights. The moods they can create are very powerful. Hey Mr. Richards, similar to the spotlights in your hallway.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by look 171

Agree with ya on the solar lights. The technology isn't there yet.

Most folks think its full brightness is the way to go, but I really think full brightness (depending on the situation) should bounce off trees to create a very soft light along with other type of fixtures elsewhere for walkways and other areas. I often suggest spot lights. The moods they can create are very powerful. Hey Mr. Richards, similar to the spotlights in your hallway.

I agree Jeff.

When I do my design work the first step is to establish up lighting. Then secondary (as you said) is down lighting (path lights) for safety or to highlight garden features, etc.

In a perfect world you have a balance of up and down lighting.

But I've also had situations where we only had a few up lights and left it at that. Every situation is different.

Tree lights (attached to branches) can be very cool as well. I have a client who had a huge Oak branch that extended across his crushed coquina driveway. It had Ressurection Fern growing on it too. We stuck a tree light on it shining horizontally across the front of the branch as you drove past it. You should see that sucker at night.

I also have some fiber optic lights but that's another whole discussion!

[look 171]

Originally Posted by daepp

So much good information - thank you thank you thank you.



bottom of a tree will be too close to it to look good?

Again - thank you very much.

I think that will look best. For sure not in the middle of the tree. if you can strap the fixture near the bottom 6 inches, that will do the trick. Its not about having full light up the tree, but have illumination through the trees and only every 6' or so. The ability to add more lights as the trees grow thick is entire possible.

The Volt lights, most are all brass and are heavy. Vista light, Rockspaces, and Kichler are usually the popular ones spec out by landscape architects. IMO, Volt is right up there with their quality and price(40% less if you catch it on sale), but limited only to their simple designs. The way I see it, its a yard light, most are hidden so it should be a big deal unless its a pendant hanging off a tree.

Landscape Warehouse has some Vista light, and Kichler on displace. There is one in Azusa. Call first because not all of them has a big display.

927 W. Foothill Blvd.
Azusa, CA 91702
(626) 633-1050