RGruppe; Atitude; or not

[nostatic]

perl scripts cannot lie

from http://hugin.sigusr1.org/~pakin/complaint

My complaint about the R Gruppe

I've tried to keep quiet, but I just can't hold it in any longer. I have to tell everyone that we cannot allow puerile misers to pass unnoticed. The first thing I want to bring up is that if the R Gruppe can give us all a succinct and infallible argument proving that a richly evocative description of a problem automatically implies the correct solution to that problem, I will personally deliver its Nobel Prize for Anti-democratic Rhetoric. In the meantime, to the R Gruppe's mind, anyone who dares to debate the efficacy of its tyrannical perorations can expect to suffer hair loss and tooth decay as a result. So that means that there is something intellectually provocative in the tired rehashing of headstrong stereotypes, right? No, not right. The truth is that the R Gruppe says that without its superior guidance, we will go nowhere. But then it turns around and says that ruffianism is a noble goal. You know, you can't have it both ways, the R Gruppe. If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. Unlike the R Gruppe, I believe in individual responsibility, the rule of law, and fair play. I'll say that again, because I want it to sink in: The R Gruppe's musings run on pure irony. For a variety of reasons, some strategic, some ideological, some attitudinal, and all of them wrong, postmodernist kooks take away our sense of community and leave us morally adrift. The R Gruppe's imprecations have paid off: already, the R Gruppe has had some success in its efforts to confuse the catastrophic power of state fascism with the repression of an authoritarian government in our minds. The fact is, the R Gruppe's subalterns have a tendency to say very similar things about the R Gruppe, as if they're quoting from scripture. Of that I am certain, because I have a tendency to report the more sensational things that the R Gruppe is up to, the more shocking things, things like how it wants to feed blind hatred. And I realize the difficulty that the average person has in coming to grips with that, but its lieutenants allege, after performing shoddy research and utilizing threadbare scholarship, that a number of their enemies are planning to expose and neutralize the R Gruppe's enemies rather than sit at the same table and negotiate. But let's not lose sight of the larger, more important issue here: the R Gruppe's obscene opuscula.

Show me where it says the R Gruppe has the right to spread hatred, animosity, and divisiveness. I challenge all of the homicidal saboteurs out there to consider this: We must not miss our chance to embrace diversity. What's my problem, then? Allow me to present it in the form of a question: How long shall there continue unruly stirrers to vend and nugatory loan sharks to gulp so low a piece of tribalism as the R Gruppe's threats? To turn that question around, to what depths of depravity does the R Gruppe need to descend before the rest of us realize we must establish a supportive -- rather than an intimidating -- atmosphere for offering public comment? We should be able to look into our own souls for the answer. If we do, I suspect we'll find that it says that there's no difference between normal people like you and me and invidious, garrulous insincere-types. What it means by this, of course, is that it wants free reign to cause this country to flounder on the shoals of self-interest, corruption, and chaos. You may be shocked to hear this, but in a tacit concession of defeat, the R Gruppe is now openly calling for the abridgment of various freedoms to accomplish coercively what its grotesque manuscripts have failed at. The R Gruppe is doing everything in its power to make me kiss my freedom goodbye. The only reason I haven't yet is that I believe in the four P's: patience, prayer, positive thinking, and perseverance.

However, many people respond to the R Gruppe's hotheaded modes of thought in the same way that they respond to television dramas. They watch them; they talk about them; but they feel no overwhelming compulsion to do anything about them. That's why I insist we open students' eyes, minds, hearts, and souls to the world around them. In purely political terms, the R Gruppe not only lies, but it brags about its lying to its lickspittles. It seems to me that the R Gruppe is both spineless and laughable. Now there's a dangerous combination if I've ever seen one. I like to speak of the R Gruppe as "impudent". That's a reasonable term to use, I feel, but let's now try to understand it a little better. For starters, if it were up to it, schoolchildren would be taught reading, 'riting, and racism. The R Gruppe is a card-carrying member of the Hypocrisy Club. That is why, come what may, we must encourage our spirits to soar.

surely the final word

[nostatic]

oopps...not quite. Equal time:

My complaint about people that hate the R Gruppe

In my last letter, I claimed that as conscious, sentient beings aware of our actions and capable of response, we must do what comes naturally, and that claim is even more true now. To start, only through education can individuals gain the independent tools they need to bring a fresh perspective and new ideas to the current debate. But the first step is to acknowledge that people that hate the R Gruppe thinks that it has mystical powers of divination and prophecy. Of course, thinking so doesn't make it so. People that hate the R Gruppe's argument that callous, jackbooted schemers are more deserving of honor than our nation's war heroes is hopelessly flawed and entirely circuitous. I and people that hate the R Gruppe part company when it comes to the issue of conformism. It feels that it is better that a hundred thousand people should perish than that it should be even slightly inconvenienced, while I insist that inasmuch as I disagree with its accusations and find its ad hominem attacks offensive, I am happy to meet its speech with more speech and, if necessary, continue this discussion until the truth shines. Although chimpanzees can be convinced to wear clothing, understand commands, and even ride bicycles (if well paid for their services in bananas), it would be virtually impossible to convince people that hate the R Gruppe that unrestrained derelicts like it tend to conveniently ignore the key issues of this or any other situation. But the problems with its schemes don't end there.

To most people, the list of people that hate the R Gruppe's snivelling self-fulfilling prophecies reads like a comic strip, but its musings are actually taken seriously by its proxies. People that hate the R Gruppe's reasoning is circular and therefore invalid. In other words, it always begins an argument with its conclusion (e.g., that human beings should be appraised by the number of things and the amount of money they possess instead of by their internal value and achievements) and therefore -- not surprisingly -- it always arrives at that very conclusion.

While there is inevitable overlap at the edges of political movements, the point at which you discover that people that hate the R Gruppe must have known that its sophistries would cause high levels of outrage and would generate many letters in response (like this one) is not only a moment of disenchantment. It is a moment of resolve, a determination that it will not be easy to get it off our back. Nevertheless, we must attempt to do exactly that, for the overriding reason that whenever people that hate the R Gruppe encounters a free-thinking individual who presents factual data that conflicts with people that hate the R Gruppe's beliefs, it doesn't know what to do. More than that, if it doesn't like it here, then perhaps it should go elsewhere. Curiously, people that hate the R Gruppe really struck a nerve with me when it said that everything is happy and fine and good. That lie is a painful reminder that every time people that hate the R Gruppe gets caught trying to provide bitter monomaniacs with a milieu in which they can lead an active disinformation campaign, it promises it'll never do so again. Subsequently, its forces always jump in and explain that it really shouldn't be blamed even if it does, because, as they contend, doing the fashionable thing is more important than life or liberty. As for me, I have no bombs, no planes, no artillery, and no terrorist plots. But I do have weapons and tactics that are far more deadly: pure light and simple truth. Please don't misread my words here; people that hate the R Gruppe is addicted to the feeling of power, to the idea of controlling people. Sadly, it has no real concern for the welfare or the destiny of the people it desires to lead. And that's what writing this sort of letter is all about. It's a way to improve the living conditions of the most vulnerable in our society -- the sick, the old, the disabled, the unemployed, and our youth -- all of whose lives are made miserable by people that hate the R Gruppe.

[jester911]

Yeah but how do you really feel, dr. static

[RSupdate]

Nostatic.........

Chill on the starbucks chocolate covered espresso beans for awhile............

[island911]

complaint-letter generator -- ROFL

[surflvr911sc]

On the other hand...

My complaint about Dr. NO Static

I want to make it perfectly clear what I do not intend to do in this letter before I carry on with what I do wish to accomplish with it. Let me preface my discussion by quickly reasserting a familiar theme of my previous letters: You shouldn't let Dr. NO Static intimidate you. You shouldn't let him push you around. We're the ones who are right, not Dr. Static. As it turns out, even if he is not conscious of the inner reason for his epigrams, his emissaries show obsequious deference to him. Sad, but true. And it'll only get worse if he finds a way to advocate unsavory politics.

Statements like, "I can hardly believe how in this day and age, odious ratbags are allowed to violate Dr. Static's pledge not to waffle on all the issues" accurately express the feelings of most of us here. Dr. Static has no soul, and besides, Dr. Static likes to identify political and religious groups that are his political enemies and re-label them as "brown-nosing creeps" in order to justify operations against them. Such activity can flourish only in the dark, however. If you drag it into the open, Dr. Static and his attendants will run for cover, like cockroaches in a dirty kitchen when the light is turned on suddenly during the night. That's why we must evaluate the tactics Dr. Static has used against me. I am not trying to save the world -- I gave up that pursuit a long time ago. But I am trying to enable patriots to use their freedoms to save their freedoms. According to the latest scientific evidence, if Dr. Static would abandon his name-calling and false dichotomies, it would be much easier for me to go placidly amid the noise and haste.

My argument gets a little complicated here. As a matter of fact, if, five years ago, I had described a person like Dr. Static to you and told you that in five years, he'd erode constitutional principles that have shaped our society and remain at the core of our freedom and liberty, you'd have thought me scummy. You'd have laughed at me and told me it couldn't happen. So it is useful now to note that, first, it has happened and, second, to try to understand how it happened and how he has recently been going around claiming that newspapers should report only on items he agrees with. You really have to tie your brain in knots to be gullible enough to believe that junk. Consider the issue of rude incendiarism. Everyone agrees that double standards are always rabid, but there are still some dotty common criminals out there who doubt that his notions reinforce the point that we still have a long way to go in terms of achieving true tolerance in our society. To them I say: He is careless with data, makes all sorts of causal interpretations of things without any real justification, has a way of combining disparate ideas that don't seem to hang together, seems to show a sort of pride in his own biases, gets into all sorts of imperious speculation, and then makes no effort to test out his speculations -- and that's just the short list! My eventual goal for this letter is to put the kibosh on Dr. NO Static's taradiddles. I'm counting on you for your support.

[juan ruiz]

Oh Oh this is getting interesting.................. thats 4 sure

[ChrisV]

Originally posted by Soterik
Well, there's not going to be a final word in this topic that's for sure....

But here's a link to some pics from the last Cambria meet.....make your own judgements on the cars...rather than what you "think" they are because of someone's posting....

If there were an issue against the cars themselves, this might actually be useful. the issue is with the attitude that teh arbitrary line is not only the end of the Gruppe's interest, but the incorrect statements that cars later than that are lesser cars, and statements like the one before that you don't "think" the later cars are as "tossable." Even though after you modify teh '73 car with RSR flares and huge wheels and tires, it becomes less "tossable" than my rather light '74 S narrowbody on narrow tires. After autocrossing MANY 911s, and driving a '69 and a '74 back to back, I can say not that I "think" the supposition is wrong, but that I have the experience to know it.

The issue is not with the cars, but the non aesthetic concepts of which is "better."

My RGruppe car isn't flaired....no tail, but I like it, and it weighs 2270 lbs like it's supposed to....the engine case is a 66 aluminum case.....and I stand by my previous posts....been there done that.....

Eric
67S twin plug 2.7

Your car is a great example of an early 911. Loved that body on my '66. And it has very little to do with my previous posts.

[cegerer]

My last attempt to bring this thread to a decisive close.

The original question posted by Dr. Island:

"There certainly are conflicting messages as to the RGruppe theme.

So which is it?"

Correct answer: Whatever Herr Gruppemeister wants it to be.

-- Curt, Servile Follower #RGPE-225

[Randy W]

I realize this thread has wandered into the twilight zone, so I'm not sure if another post will help bring any sense of reason. I'm glad you were pulling my leg, Glenn - hypocrisy is something I have guarded against all my life and it's one of the few things I cannot tolerate in myself or others. Nostatic, I couldn't understand what you wrote, so I'll assume it was meant to be a joke: "Hate the R Gruppe"? Gee, hating anything this esoteric would seem to require too much energy to be worthwhile. On the other hand the passion so evident in those associated with something this esoteric is abundantly evident, and I cannot help to think this is a good thing for the most part. For what it's worth I think all aircooled 911s are neat, and the '74 is still a tossable car. Anybody feel better?

[nostatic]

Originally posted by surflvr911sc He is careless with data, makes all sorts of causal interpretations of things without any real justification, has a way of combining disparate ideas that don't seem to hang together, seems to show a sort of pride in his own biases, gets into all sorts of imperious speculation, and then makes no effort to test out his speculations

why the heck you think I work in academia?!?

*sniff* finally someone who understands me. Warms the cockles of my odious and misanthropic heart.

Pretty useful web site, eh?

[island911]

Never mind the orignal question(few else have) . . . "Servile Follower " LOL

. . .and with such a visionary at the helm how could you not be? (a Servile Follower)

Thanks for the clarity Curt.

Randy, Nostatic used a "complaint-letter generator" to puctuate the level of absurdity this thread has gone to. Also, way back in the thread where I make reference to have met only top-notch guys from the rgruppe, I was thinking of you and RLJ.

[Doug Zielke]

Originally posted by ChrisV

It's a wonderful series of cars, and an impressive car company. But it's not a religion.

Can I have an Amen, brothers!

[Randy W]

Amen.

[RLJ]

I am the person that was quoted at the start of this thing.

I am very defensive of my gruppe. The dread on my name thing does not set well, that is where the quote started. I have e-mailed Marc long ago and we have no problems.

I think that there are a whole bunch of folks who have way to much free time, maybe ya' all should go drive and work on your cars as hard as you have worked blasting some guy here on this BBS. Some of it was entertaining, some of it pretty small.

R Gruppe is what you as a memeber want it to be, I love my "Hot Rod", others love there super stock right out of the box cars. My favorite 2 cars that I have seen at R Gruppe events are Curtis's back dated car and the GT-2. The best part of all is we are all friends and treat each other with respect! Every one is treated equal, the guy that is driving the "tired" 67S is just as well received as the guy driving the super low mile 73RS or the guy in the hot rod or the guy in the early "T".

Randy Jones
1971 911

[pwd72s]

I'll back Randy up here! After all, his slut & my virgin park near each other quite often, with no harm to either. Not only that, the car owners get along just fine! (Actually my car "Nina" isn't 100% virgin...she's fooled around a little. It's just that she'll never be the wild girl that Randy's car "Iris" is. )

[island911]

Geez R-guys; you say "Enough" and follow up with self engrandizing fluff. . .among other things.

Don't make me get out the hypo-words.

[Jack Olsen]

I trust no one will disagree with my decision to let this discussion 'go to a nice thread farm out in the country, where it can run with other threads all day.'

[ted]

Originally posted by island911
Geez R-guys; you say "Enough" and follow up with self engrandizing fluff. . .among other things.

Don't make me get out the hypo-words.

Emphatically insincere or disruptive force?
Why care?

Good reference TH.
38. Listen to constructive criticism. But remember, there are people out there who enjoy to see you get angry. If you learn to tell the difference between the two, you are wise.

[island911]

Originally posted by JackOlsen
I trust no one will disagree with my decision to let this discussion 'go to a nice thread farm out in the country, where it can run with other threads all day.'