Why was the 911 made without power steering?

[sugarwood]

Why was the 911 made without power steering? Obviously, the technology existed since the 1950s. Do most performance cars lack power steering?
Was it an engineering issue to have a pulley based pump at the front of the car? Do most rear and mid-engined cars lack power steering for this reason?

Can someone explain the benefits of not having power steering?

The 993 got power steering in 1994, so why was it suddenly a good idea to have power steering?

[unclebilly]

Unnecessary weight and not needed in a rear weight biased 2200 lb car (as originally designed).

[gordner]

The car is light enough to not require power steering, which deadens feel and adds significant weight and manufacturing costs.
Manual steering will always be superior for road feel etc. in a small and nimble vehicle. As they get heavier, it becomes less practical to rely on muscles to power the steering.
Technology progresses as well, PS in the 50's was sure as hell not a sports feature, now it is much more so with vastly improved feedback.

[unclebilly]

Oh and the 964 had power steering in 1989. but it was then a 3000+ lb car (my 90 C4 Targa was 3300 lbs). Also the original tires were 'pizza cutters' compared to the more modern sports tire we run on these cars these days.

[stomachmonkey]

Didn't need it.

[GH85Carrera]

See all of above.

With much wider and stickier tires than the factory used or dreamed would be mounted and very slow speeds the steering can be heavy. With normal street tires and a proper alignment the steering is light. My car is like a laser beam. Very precise steering.

[Joe Bob]

964 powered 911s had PS......by then they were fat pigs as were the drivers and needed it.

[dad911]

As above, and a properly aligned early car doesn't take much force to turn the wheels. Also, Power steering pump robs power.

[Otter74]

No need to repeat what has been said above, but the above also explains why they had unassisted brakes until 1977. With a correctly designed braking system and little enough weight, you can get all the braking force needed without excessive pedal force.

I once tried (but alas could not drive) a Corvair at a show, and the steering effort was remarkable - centerpoint geometry meant that even with unassisted steering, effort at a stop was feather-light.

[wildthing]

I think small cars these days don't need power steering either. People just need to learn how to turn, that is: turn the wheel while the car is moving.

[74-911]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Why was the 911 made without power steering? Obviously, the technology existed since the 1950s.

If you ever had the misfortune of driving a 50's era car with PS, you would know why sports cars didn't have it. They advertised cars with female models turning the steering wheel lock to lock with one finger with the car not moving. There was absolutely no feedback or road feel... it was effortless all right but totallly dead.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Not only was the car lighter with the engine over the back- there were two other reasons-
1st the wheels were VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY skinny- 165? 185- maybe?
2nd the steering wheel was oversized like something you'd use to steer a yacht.
My dad has a 1965 911, which we unearthed from a garage heap several years ago.
Pushing it through the driveway-under the no power of it's own- it steered like a hot knife through butter!

As time went on-
Cars got heavier,
Tires got wider
Steering wheels got smaller

[wdfifteen]

Of all the things I wish my 911 had, from logical electrics to a functioning HVAC system, I have never even thought of the lack of power steering as a shortcoming.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Another point- question? maybe?
Didn't most 1950-60's cars (not US) not have power steering?
I'm thinking VW(obviously)- british, volvo's etc?

My dad has an extree 1965-66'sh wooden steering wheel. It is ridiculously goofy looking sizewise- yet secretly, I long to get it from him to mount in my 78 sc.- Yes it will look stupid- but maybe- just maybe it would give me a little more leverage over that front end. (EDIT- it would be nostalgic for me nonetheless- my 1st car was a 66 912- and it was a wooden one, not the plastic). Knowing nothing different, I remember growing up and thinking how stupid it looked when all the p-car owners had longhoods with small aftermarket steering wheels about the size of a steering wheel off of a "pole- position" video arcade game. I think a good compromise maybe is the 69' diameter steering wheel- which (I think- could be wrong) was a little smaller than the boatwheels, but bigger than the 1980's type wheels.
I dunno.....just a whim- don't tell anyone.

[RF5BPilot]

As others have said, having owned a '66 and a '69 911 -- they didn't need power steering (and their steering wheels weren't that large....)

I never thought cars with power steering transmitted as much information to the driver as those without.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Okay... final answer...
When growing up I always had the longhoods. They were cheap- more bondo than steel, and leaked like a faucet.
I had a friend- who could afford 80-89 models. I was sooooo jealous- They had qualities that I only dreamed of- Galvanization, power, heat (that worked- not rusted through), even something called AIR CONDITIONING. Those sexy things called impact bumpers.

I longed for something later. Ironically- he (with the means) longed for something earlier.

Now- 30 years later- I understand both positions- he longed for the feedback and feel of the earlier cars. That's why I chose my SC over later carrera's- it just had a better feel than any later 80's model I test drove. The SC (for me) was the best compromise between the rustbucket's I owned and the heavy cars he owned, even with the slightly less power. That's just me BTW-- other user's experiences may vary- but the feel of the lighter cars really makes a difference- and that gets lost to a certain extent with power steering- to the point where ordinary people give up galvinization, heat, ac, etc- just for the visceral feel.
Whoops I said too much
As for my 78'...

Now to wait for the broken headstud!!!!

The point being- that a lot of the decision was based on steering feedback- for both of us!

[stuartj]

Imagine the 964 got power steering (and very well weighted tactile steering at that) because of demand from certain markets, the same it got more electric this and that's as well. But the reality is probably homologation for racing. Competition cars can carry bigger camber and castor settings with power steering.

[tubwreck]

The 964 went to power steering because it was needed to support the steering geometry required by ABS.

ABS requires a near-zero steering offset (the steering axis needs to pass through the center off the contact patch), and zero-offset steering requires much more effort to turn the wheels than the large positive offset steering of the pre-964 911.

Also the reason that the traditional Fuchs were not available on the 964 -- incompatible with zero-offset geometry.

(See Paul Frere, 911 Story.)

[Brian 162]

Because they were driven by men.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by tubwreck

The 964 went to power steering because it was needed to support the steering geometry required by ABS.

ABS requires a near-zero steering offset (the steering axis needs to pass through the center off the contact patch), and zero-offset steering requires much more effort to turn the wheels than the large positive offset steering of the pre-964 911.

Also the reason that the traditional Fuchs were not available on the 964 -- incompatible with zero-offset geometry.

(See Paul Frere, 911 Story.)

Is there some way you can expound on this with some basic foundational concepts?
Any links I can read?