Buying used X5 vs Cayenne

[onewhippedpuppy]

Land Cruiser is a lot bigger, and much more oriented towards luxury than sport. They also hold their value very well, prepare to be shocked at the pricing of used ones. 4Runner will be much more truck-like, again not really sport oriented. I had a 2003 4Runner that I sold to Seahawk and its still going strong, I've had several of them recently as rentals and was not impressed at all.

[red-beard]

I do not reccomend the BMW X5, at least 2011 or when that version came out. There are lots of little things that have gone wrong. Paint flaking off the controls. The door pillar material is too soft and the seat belts scuff it.

If you are doing the repairs, the parts are readily available and not too expensive. Front and rear pads ran me around $100 including the sensors, since the rotors were in good shape.

The one frustrating thing about BMW, they like to hide everything. Engine compartment has covers over everything. You need online resources to do just about anything.

[edgemar]

How about the ML/GLE class Mercedes? Are they worse?

[Rtrorkt]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I think a Range Rover makes either one look like a Camry in comparison.

Got a 2016 RRSport diesel. Great car, with some electronic gremlins. Would buy another in a minute

[cairns]

We own two X5s- a 2008 with the 4.8 (120K) and a 2012 3.5 diesel (53K). They've both been very good cars and we have an indie we love which is a big part of why we still have them. What amazed me about them is the cost cutting steps BMW took between the years. The 2012 had rotor hubs and calipers that immediately rusted. The strut holding up the trunk floor was no longer there. Neither were the hooks on the sides for holding grocery bags or the elastic (cloth) cords used to hold luggage. The 2012 has developed more rattles- one from the drivers side door that wasn't fixed even after numerous tries under warranty (I just live with it) and it's had numerous other minor quality issues pop up. The leather is wearing unusually fast despite meticulous care. While neither have been trouble free both have been pretty reliable and have been used to haul my Porsche(s) to track events all along the East Coast and out to the mid west on occasion. They both tow like a dream.

I don't think either BMW or Porsche holds an edge on reliability but I would think (hope) that a late model Cayenne is going be better built than a late model BMW. BMW has lost the plot IMO and I would never buy another new one.

Hope this helps. Also FWIW our neighbor sold their RR after God knows how many issues and bought a Cayenne. She loves it.

[hcoles]

It is perplexing that BMW sales don't seem to be much affected by poor reliability. I can't help thinking design decisions are made to force you to visit the dealer for repairs or service. Otherwise why would so many critical parts be made from plastic, aluminum bolts, multiple, complicated errors codes/etc. ?

We bought a new Lexus about 6 years ago. Rock solid nothing has broken. However, you will still get the service "advisers" lying to you about this or that. E.g. "We can't discount the tire price (to the going rate) because the tires are specially made for Lexus". The exact tires are sold on TireRack....

[shawn908]

Good feedback - thanks. The ‘10 Cayenne S was great - nothing wrong I could discern in a 5 min test drive... Also considering an 04 base (V6) as it has just 44k miles. BUT it’s 14 yrs old which is not popular chez moi. I have a RR classic (94) that was great for about 14 yrs - it’s a project now. It required constant maintenance but what we enjoyed it as a do everything SUV for the family.

Also fun times as insurance company indicates A3 is worth 15- 20% less vs what I can find comparable to replace. Almost worth another thread hearing the explanation. But I won’t as still in process and who knows we may realize an agreement. Need to since need a vehicle.

Toyota Land Cruiser is stratospheric relative to used Cayenne or X5.
Traveling this weekend so the search will be punted to next week.

[944 S2]

Originally Posted by hcoles

It is perplexing that BMW sales don't seem to be much affected by poor reliability. I can't help thinking design decisions are made to force you to visit the dealer for repairs or service. Otherwise why would so many critical parts be made from plastic, aluminum bolts, multiple, complicated errors codes/etc. ?

We bought a new Lexus about 6 years ago. Rock solid nothing has broken. However, you will still get the service "advisers" lying to you about this or that. E.g. "We can't discount the tire price (to the going rate) because the tires are specially made for Lexus". The exact tires are sold on TireRack....

Actually some manufacturers do tune tires for thier specific vehicles even thought it is also sold by the same name at tire dealers. I work for an OEM and we do our own tire development. So maybe not all lies!

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by 944 S2

Actually some manufacturers do tune tires for thier specific vehicles even thought it is also sold by the same name at tire dealers. I work for an OEM and we do our own tire development. So maybe not all lies!

Good to know and not surprising for special cars. I think in this case CT200h is no special car so I assume special tire dev. is not really needed.

[speeder]

What year did the body change on Cayennes?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Sadly this thread reflects exactly why I don't buy BMWs anymore. Not just a lack of reliability, but a lack of overall build and material quality. I too am shocked that it hasn't seemed to have impacted their brand, maybe the "prestige" of owning a BMW makes it worthwhile to the average American?

[shawn908]

Originally Posted by speeder

What year did the body change on Cayennes?

Think it is original body style 2003-2010
955 model - 2003 - 2006
957 model - 2008 - 2010

Then new style (body, interior, engine etc)
958 model - 2011 - current

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Sadly this thread reflects exactly why I don't buy BMWs anymore. Not just a lack of reliability, but a lack of overall build and material quality. I too am shocked that it hasn't seemed to have impacted their brand, maybe the "prestige" of owning a BMW makes it worthwhile to the average American?

I agree. There are likely a number of things going on:
- the vast majority of new BMW buyers are not reviewing forums/etc. to get an idea of what they are buying, more like the person down the street got one so I'm getting one
- BMW wants the buyer to be like.... okay $3,500 for brakes...or $8,000 for a transmission - whatever is fine, I'll take one of those BMW jackets and not wear it.

- marketing works, BMW has excellent marketing to get your money into their pocket
- you get a good car when all is working correctly and you look cool to the neighbors
- I feel the days of the DIY easily bolting on parts when the original has an issue are past - if you need to replace the plastic heater tubes on an e46 3 series you know what I mean.

I would assigned the issues to build quality, maybe some to material quality. For example how much regrind is allowed in the plastic. I assign the issues to design quality or goals. I believe the BMW engineers can design a car to last as long as what they are directed to achieve.

I feel like just sticking to my 5.3L Chevy with the 700R4. What I spend in additional fuel is quickly made up by one DIY part replacement. The downside is the negative vibe I get from the neighbors for not having a BMW, Merc, etc. SUV

[hcoles]

I meant to say not assigned to build quality. E.g. putting a plastic water pump in slightly askew is not the problem. The fact that the material doesn't hold up over a long enough time is the problem.

[shawn908]

Ok. Time for an update on this second chapter. Now replacing the A3 after its unexpected early demise.
Porsche Cayenne S - could not pull the trigger because although a good low mileage example ('10) was found, the dealer would not let us take it on highway (kill shot) and driving it locally never let us forget it was a V8 - obvious engine noise (never got above 40mph...). So I let this go. Great vehicle - maybe one day.

Land Cruiser, 4Runner - never drove but reviewed and saw in person - and determined too big for needs and desires. This will be spouse's primarily. No X5s were found in our $ range with sufficiently low miles and or trusted history.

Now find us deciding between two sedans (Surprise! for me).... which are quite different, each offering advantages over the other. Both one owner cars with full service history at respective dealers, both AWD, German, 4 doors, pre-owned. A '15 MB C 300 - a lease return (no info on owner) w/ 37k miles, and an Audi S4 w/ 50k miles ('10) that was owned by an "an older gentleman" local to the environs, traded it in a for a new luxury sedan. The car is a "cream puff", i.e. mint condish. An advantage of the Audi is several thousand less dollars.

Any experience with these cars? I've never owned an MB so getting used to that star is one thing. But how about reliability of the C class - any info appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Decision is approaching.

[Tim Hancock]

My wife daily drives an '08 6 cylinder Cayenne. It has 190,000 miles and still is nice to drive. No engine problems in the 70,000 miles we have put on it. HVAC acts wonky once I awhile, but I really like driving it much better than our previous '06 X5. Drives like a car but pulls my 21' boat with ease. I will likely buy her a 2012 6 cylinder soon but keep the high mileage '08 as my daily driver replacing my beater 330i.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by shawn908

the dealer would not let us take it on highway (kill shot)

I've never understood people selling a car that either won't let you drive it or radically limit the test drive.

If I can't get a car up to highway speed, I'm not going to buy it.

[shawn908]

History repeats with a miss on a Cayenne. A4 sedan replaces A3 hatch. 2015 w/ <30k miles. Highway and local driving tests were not a problem with dealer. Seems ok but time will tell.
Thanks for the good discussion and shared experience.