RedBull F1 getting the Karma it deserves

[porsche4life]

Newey says Red Bull team "forced out of F1" as Renault relationship "terminal"

[motion]

Originally Posted by intakexhaust

Wasn't it that in the same era, champ cars were 400 lbs. heavier than an F1 car?

Have to say, the CART formula was terrific entertainment. Just enough on the cusp of letting engineers use secrets and evolving R&D. Protest were not so harsh, nor outrageous in penalty. Also allowed the chance for newbie teams and not break the bank. They could run for a few years and get in the mix. The driver development program was excellent. They had a grueling and long season.... something I liked.

I attended literally dozens of ChampCar/CART races over the years. Was a real addict! Loved following Penske's custom development, drivers like Tracy and Zanardi, the tire battles and manuf.'s Swift, Lola, Reynard leapfrogging each other each year. The pop-off valve allotments, LOL. Great stuff. I tell ya, watching a Champcar slog out of a corner and coming on the boost, unleashing 900+ HP was something to behold. My jaw used to hit the ground.

If all goes well, I'll have my man cave soon and I'll be shopping for a 90's ChampCar roller or hopefully complete car to have in the cave. A dream come true for me.

[motion]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

Newey says Red Bull team "forced out of F1" as Renault relationship "terminal"

I never believed it would come to this, but looks like it might

[Deschodt]

Today “We're possibly going to be forced out of Formula One -- Mercedes and Ferrari have refused to supply us out of fear,” Newey told Reuters. “Red Bull should not be put in a position where they're only there to make up the numbers.”

That summarizes RedBull's modesty and tact. It's not exactly fear, it's common sense... it would be stupid of Mercedes or Ferrari to sell you their best engine and get beaten, they'd lose their jobs. Also maybe it's fear of getting dragged in the mud in the media by RedBull like Renault experienced.

Oh I'm loving this... It's so rare nowadays to see dickish moves get rewarded !!

[willtel]

Wayne needs a hobby. Pelican F1 team!

[968rz]

Originally Posted by willtel

Wayne needs a hobby. Pelican F1 team!

I can change mean tire!!!

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by 968rz

I can change mean tire!!!

Probably not in 2.4 seconds though ;-) Man these days pit stops are awesome to watch ! More fun than the racing almost !

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

Today “We're possibly going to be forced out of Formula One -- Mercedes and Ferrari have refused to supply us out of fear,” Newey told Reuters. “Red Bull should not be put in a position where they're only there to make up the numbers.”

That summarizes RedBull's modesty and tact. It's not exactly fear, it's common sense... it would be stupid of Mercedes or Ferrari to sell you their best engine and get beaten, they'd lose their jobs. Also maybe it's fear of getting dragged in the mud in the media by RedBull like Renault experienced.

Oh I'm loving this... It's so rare nowadays to see dickish moves get rewarded !!

Yea, my heart bleeds for the cry babies.

[regency]

I have the "insider" info.......Redbull just signed an engine deal with Briggs & Stratton.

I used to like F-1, now i could give a chit.

1973 911 T MFI Coupe, Aubergine

Steve

[rfuerst911sc]

My prediction is they sign a deal with Honda. That will help Honda develop the engine and allow Red Bull not to pay out millions of dollars to get out.

[petrolhead611]

Exciting race watching is British Touring Cars, or Renault Clio Cup. Door mirrors often don't last a lap in the latter.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by petrolhead611

Exciting race watching is British Touring Cars, or Renault Clio Cup. Door mirrors often don't last a lap in the latter.

Love watching those, the rare times they are on here in the states. DTM and the Aussie V8 super cars are fun too. F1 bores me, it's like a parade lap and they have regulated much of the cool tech out of the cars. Sorry but I don't give a rats ass about efficiency of a race car, I want it powered by rockets with fighter jet technology going 300 MPH sideways around the track. F1 used to be the bleeding edge of racing tech and the ultimate in performance, now it seems to be as much soap opera as racing. Maybe it's the new European NASCAR?

[sand_man]

What is this "F1" that people speak of in this thread?





I'm completely out until "they" give me a reason to watch! There's much better racing out there.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by petrolhead611

Exciting race watching is British Touring Cars, or Renault Clio Cup. Door mirrors often don't last a lap in the latter.

I really have a problem with the rubbin is racing mode. I hate it. Make a clean lap and no hitting the competition just to knock them out of the way. I quit watching some of the endurance races when it became crash car demolition derby.

[ted]

Regardless if Red Bull deserved to be with or without an engine..
F1 has become controlled by the engine suppliers, Ferrari and Merc.
If you support no RB next year then you are also in support of the duopoly of Ferrari and Merc drive-trains.
In reality, two engine manufactures have dominant control over the F1 drive-train market.

[5String43]

Red Bull totally did this to themselves by burning Renault, which powered the team to four world championships, to the ground - and by being stupid enough to do so before they had an alternate engine supplier in the bag. They're now saying that the other manufacturers are "forcing them out" by not agreeing to supply them with a current-spec engine. That's just silly and reflects what a bunch of spoiled brats they are. I'm sick of their whining and will be very happy indeed to see them gone. Both teams. And I echo the OP's thoughts about Helmut Marko. They are all a bunch of a$$hats.

On a related note, I just read that Renault may not make the final decision to purchase the Lotus team until December. A couple of things about that - first, it sure seems to screw up the timeline for Lotus - or whatever it's going to be called - to design its 2016 car. And if true, it could also mean that any decision to supply other teams - Red Bull, for instance - might not be made until then. Red Bull has said it will depart if there is no engine deal by the end of this month, October. So it gets ever more interesting.

[Tervuren]

Red Bull's action have more to do with Renault's input on demanding a new engine format that fans call boring, compromising the Red Bull's needs for a team that left Renault in one year(Lotus), than the actual relative performance of the engine.

To some extent, Renault is getting what it deserves, demanding a hypocritical engine format to pander to a group of greenie political crazies.

If F1 really wanted to save fuel, they'd reduce the number of GP's that require flying equipment in massive Jumbo Jets to the other side of the world.

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

To some extent, Renault is getting what it deserves, demanding a hypocritical engine format to pander to a group of greenie political crazies.

You're not wrong in that Renault was pushing for that engine that they sucked at delivering ! I also prefered naturally aspirated simpler engines, but without this formula Honda would not have entered the fray, the idea was to attract VW as well (not anymore!!!) and most manufacturers wanted something more relevant to the cars they build. They went too far but got it...

And so did the rulebook people who pushed for supposed money saving and whose rules (preventing development and therefore anyone from catching up) are killing competition and viewership right now... At least/at last, the engine constructors are meeting this week to see about changing those stupid token rules and freeze deals if Mercedes does not veto it...

But the biggest irony of all remains RedBull dragging their 4 time WC partner in the mud, telling them to take a hike before they secured another engine, and now having to crawl on their knees for an engine. It's awesome... Couldn't happen to a nicer humbler bunch !

PS: Was reading about this last night, Fiat's CEO is not against giving them an engine (good for image and IPO of Ferrari) but Vettel and Arrivabene are definitely not on board ;-)

[Deschodt]

in now:

The FIA has confirmed manufacturers will not be allowed to supply lesser specification engines to its customer teams in 2016, in a move widely seen as a way to ensure Red Bull remains in Formula 1.

A tweak to the technical regulations means Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault and Honda cannot offer second-tier engines to their customer teams from 2016.

“Only power units which are identical to the power unit that has been homologated by the FIA in accordance with Appendix 4 of these regulations may be used at an Event during the 2016- 2020 Championship seasons."

It comes after it was speculated Toro Rosso could run 2015-specification Ferrari power units as part of its much needed engine deal..

Significantly, however, it potentially opens the door for Red Bull – who is finalising its divorce from Renault - to get the factory-level specification power unit it has been pushing for after it rejected the original offer of an engine akin to that offered by Haas and Sauber.

Though this doesn't mean that Ferrari will necessarily go ahead and offer any engine to Red Bull at all – and it doesn't exclude the manufacturers from prioritising their own power units in terms of software and mapping -, it is the first evident step by the FIA to maintain the former champions remain

F1 teams have already expressed some support for a rule tweak to allow 2015 engines to be used next year, but this still needs discussion at the next F1 Commission meeting.

[KNS]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

If F1 really wanted to save fuel, they'd reduce the number of GP's that require flying equipment in massive Jumbo Jets to the other side of the world.

Funny - but true when you think about it. And the grandstands at those far-flung races are half empty.