Strobe light om bikes....illegal or not?

[Joe Bob]

I have been running a flashlight based strobe light on my bike both front and rear for years. Nothing but comments from pedestrians and drivers that say "boy I can really see you!" Never a complaint. Mostly daylight riding.

I was riding home at dusk tonight and got pulled over. A senior patrol officer (Corporal) told me that my light could trigger epileptic seizures with the light.

I suggested that epileptics can''t have a drivers license by law and I was not aware of a law that prohibited the lights. He said he didn't either but told me to turn off the strobe. Not wanting to get hooked up for failing the attitude test, I did so and went home.

So....the CHP is closed on weekends and nothing turns up on the net, yea or nay.

What say the maniacs on the board? Please cite a rule or code without being an asshat, please.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

There's some truth to flashing lights potentially triggering seizures, but as with most things it's overstated. One reason strobe lights in building fire alarm systems have to be synched is to prevent this.

I'd have asked the cop to flip on the emergency lights on his cruiser - those things are obnoxious, distracting and likely far more likely to trigger a seizure (or an accident) than some guy on a bike. The newest ones are deliberately randomized in order to maximize visibility (exactly what also maximizes the risk of a seizure).

Then again the rules don't (and common sense doesn't) apply to the police - only the peons / subjects that they get to bully and harass for their own amusement and ego-masturbation under the guise of "public safety". For one I'm awfully sick of the double standards.

Sounds like the guy was just another dickhead cop on a power trip.

[Joe Bob]

I forgot about the strobes on cop cars, thanks.....

[ossiblue]

California Vehicle Code
Division 12
Chapter 2
Article 7
Sections 25250--Flashing lights are prohibited on vehicles except as otherwise permitted.
25251--(Lists the exemptions for the above section. Strobes are not listed as exempt on non-emergency vehicles so they are prohibited.). Bicycles must follow the vehicle code.

http://ca.regstoday.com/law/veh/ca.regstoday.com/laws/veh/calaw-veh_DIVISION12_CHAPTER2.aspx

[flatbutt]

Does any blinking light qualify as a strobe? Is there a particular freq/sec or some such? I run a blinking light (front and rear) on my bike at all times. Never had an issue.

edit: From Wiki so YMMV...Sometimes strobe lighting can trigger seizures in photosensitive epilepsy. An infamous event took place in 1997 in Japan when an episode of the Pokémon anime, Dennō Senshi Porygon (commonly translated known as Electric Soldier Porygon), featured a scene that depicted a huge explosion using flashing red and blue lights, causing about 685 of the viewing children to be sent to hospitals.[5] These flashes were extremely bright strobe lights. They involved multiple colors with a strobe effect at about 12 Hz. Although 95% of the 685 just complained of dizziness, some were hospitalized. Organizers later said that they did not know about the threshold of strobing.

Most strobe lights on sale to the public are factory-limited to about 10–12 Hz (10–12 flashes per second) in their internal oscillators, although externally triggered strobe lights will often flash as frequently as possible. Studies have shown that the majority of people that are susceptible to the strobing effects can have symptoms at 15 Hz-70 Hz, albeit rare. Other studies have shown epileptic symptoms at the 15 Hz rate with over 90 seconds of continuous staring at a strobe light. There have been no known seizures at or below the 8 Hz (or 8 flashes per second) level.[citation needed] Many fire alarms in schools, hospitals, stadiums, etc. strobe at a 1 Hz rate.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

California Vehicle Code
Division 12
Chapter 2
Article 7
Sections 25250--Flashing lights are prohibited on vehicles except as otherwise permitted.
25251--(Lists the exemptions for the above section. Strobes are not listed as exempt on non-emergency vehicles so they are prohibited.). Bicycles must follow the vehicle code.

http://ca.regstoday.com/law/veh/ca.regstoday.com/laws/veh/calaw-veh_DIVISION12_CHAPTER2.aspx

Why does any of that apply to bicycles?. It applies to "vehicles" and

CVC sec 670

A "vehicle" is a device by which any person or property may be propelled, moved, or drawn upon a highway, excepting a device moved exclusively by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks.

It looks to me like only CVC 21200-21212 apply to bicycles.

CVC sec 231

A bicycle is a device upon which any person may ride, propelled exclusively by human power through a belt, chain, or gears, and having one or more wheels. Persons riding bicycles are subject to the provisions of this code specified in Sections 21200 and 21200.5.

CVC 21200 through 21212 are titled Operation of Bicycles. There is nothing about blinking/flashing lights on bikes except that they cannot be flashing blue lights.

I think the OP should contact the CHP and bring the officer's error to the attention of his superiors.

I also am unimpressed by the claim that bike flashing lights might cause epileptic seizures. I've never seen any data showing that this actually happens often enough to care about. Anything "might" happen.

[Joe Bob]

What about on a moped?

[aigel]

How about your butt ending up run over because that car didn't see you when pulling out in front of you? probably much more likely to happen than drivers getting seizures ...

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by jyl

Why does any of that apply to bicycles?. It applies to "vehicles" and

CVC sec 670

A "vehicle" is a device by which any person or property may be propelled, moved, or drawn upon a highway, excepting a device moved exclusively by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks.

It looks to me like only CVC 21200-21212 apply to bicycles.

CVC sec 231

A bicycle is a device upon which any person may ride, propelled exclusively by human power through a belt, chain, or gears, and having one or more wheels. Persons riding bicycles are subject to the provisions of this code specified in Sections 21200 and 21200.5.

CVC 21200 through 21212 are titled Operation of Bicycles. There is nothing about blinking/flashing lights on bikes except that they cannot be flashing blue lights.

I think the OP should contact the CHP and bring the officer's error to the attention of his superiors.

I also am unimpressed by the claim that bike flashing lights might cause epileptic seizures. I've never seen any data showing that this actually happens often enough to care about. Anything "might" happen.

I would tend to agree, but CVC 21200 reads, (a) A person riding a bicycle or operating a pedicab upon a highway has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this division, including, but not limited to, provisions concerning driving under the influence of alcoholic beverages or drugs, and by Division 10 (commencing with Section 20000), Section 27400, Division 16.7 (commencing with Section 39000), Division 17 (commencing with Section 40000.1), and Division 18 (commencing with Section 42000), except those provisions which by their very nature can have no application.

Possibly the "not limited to" part could allow one (say a LEO) to pull in other vehicle provisions, like white flashing strobe lights, if they see fit. It is interesting that a flashing red light is allowed on the rear of a bicycle, but not on a car.

I don't think anyone has heard of regulating strobes on any type of vehicle due to possible seizures.

Edit: I just re read the OP, noticed that the officer wasn't aware of a law prohibiting the flashing lights. It was just his opinion that they could cause seizures. Yes, time to go to the CHP and call the officer out.

[RSBob]

My dad is a physician and has commented several times while we were driving at night when there were flashing lights about there danger in causing epileptic attacks.

I have a very bright strobe on my commuter road bike. Oh well

[Joe Bob]

Originally Posted by aigel

How about your butt ending up run over because that car didn't see you when pulling out in front of you? probably much more likely to happen than drivers getting seizures ...

First thing out of my mouth......

[Eric Coffey]

If they can't get you on the "strobe" aspect alone, they may be able to get you for "white light to the rear" which is illegal in most jurisdictions. So, you might get a red lens/cover for the rear light.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

I would tend to agree, but CVC 21200 reads, (a) A person riding a bicycle or operating a pedicab upon a highway has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle by this division, including, but not limited to, provisions concerning driving under the influence of alcoholic beverages or drugs, and by Division 10 (commencing with Section 20000), Section 27400, Division 16.7 (commencing with Section 39000), Division 17 (commencing with Section 40000.1), and Division 18 (commencing with Section 42000), except those provisions which by their very nature can have no application.

Possibly the "not limited to" part could allow one (say a LEO) to pull in other vehicle provisions, like white flashing strobe lights

I don't think it is a good argument, or would hold up in court. Those sections have to do with driver conduct, not with vehicle equipment.

[jyl]

I can't find any factual stuff about whether and how often flashing bike lights cause seizures.

In an epilepsy organization's document, I see
"Red flashing bicycle lights (light emitting diodes, or LEDS) have triggered seizures in a small number of people. This has happened when they were very close to the lights, setting them up."
http://www.nhs.uk/ipgmedia/national/epilepsy%20action/assets/photosensitiveepilepsy.pdf

Based on the above, that organization asked cyclists (in the UK) to stop using flashing lights.

I think if bike lights were really causing lots of, or even some, seizures out there on the roads, there would be more reports and data.

[ZOO]

All new school buses in Ontario have a strobe light on the roof that flashes when they are underway.