School me on the various models of the 944.

[sugarwood]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_944

This is my impression from my first pass of reading. Is this in the ballpark?

• The base 944 has about 150hp. Market seems to be from $3000 to $4500 for a nicer one. I am guessing they are not popular since they are not all that fast, yet are still expensive to repair.
  
• 944 S has 190-210HP. Seems a much better value than the base 944. Market seems to be $6k to $9k, the top end being low miles, original, etc.
  
• 944 Turbo has 220 to 250 HP, and is obviously the one people want. Middle of market seems to be $10k, while top of the market seems to be $17k to $20k. (Orig, low miles, etc)

Any 944 owners here? Curious how they compare to the 911 or other cars in their range.

[legion]

Don't forget the S2.

I had an S. Some parts could be hard to come by. The Turbo and S2 were both way more common and way more desirable.

[stealthn]

I had an 83 944 as my first p-car and it was a blast. Easy to work on yourself, even though under powered handled like a go cart; I could never break the back end loose.

Look for the best example within your budget, verify all the well known issues in each have been addressed, and go for it.

They don't compare to a 911.

Good luck

[Arizona_928]

Yep that 3.0l 16v s2 is a beast. Better then the turbo imho.

You can't really compare them to anything. They're all unique engineered. Maybe an e30?
Either way I don't mess around with the 2.5 na anymore unless I'm flipping it. Once you drive the turbo and s models you just don't go back.


Ask specifics. We know a lot about the 944's....

[Tidybuoy]

I have an '88 944 as my daily driver and a '74 911. definitely two very different cars. The 944 is very comfortable and handles great but has less power than the 911. The '88 model base car has 168 HP. When I take it on local PCA road trips up the mountains, it is a blast to drive and keeps up with the best (I'm just floored the whole time). The A/C works well and will freeze your fingers off.

I've made slight modifications to mine: 16" Turbo Wheels, Koni shocks & struts, slightly stiffer springs in the front which also lowered the car about an inch (rear ride height is adjustable, front is not, except when modifying springs), 968 M30 swaybars.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

968.

[Tervuren]

The 944 is not expensive to maintain or repair, however, they are at an age where everything that can rot needs replacement. the essential mechanicals are easy to work on, parts are not that expensive.

However, sun and humidity have done their work on most 944 interiors. You may need to replace everything made of rubber or plastic in the engine bay. If you want a car that is 10/10, it will cost you, if just want something that drives, and are willing to plug up powered systems(strong legs do not power brakes or steering need.) or go without AC, it suddenly a lot cheaper to keep on the road.

The 944s, more complexity and cost in the engine bay, more weight, less low end torque, more power. If you really want more power, get a S2 or Turbo!!!!!

The 944S2, fantastic 4 cylinder motor, adequate power. Not as soft of a ride as earlier 944's. This may or may not be a good thing. Had a S2 in the family, I didn't buy it when it was sold as I wouldn't have as much parts interchangeability. It does however, have an adequate amount of power for modern instate on ramps.

The 944 Turbo, an early model used an older suspension setup, this lets you use beautiful but rare 944 Turbo 16" Fuch's wheels. I would not want any other!

The 944 Turbo S has a larger but laggier turbo.

If looking for a used one, keep in mind there were lots of different handling options, and one 944 will not go into a corner like another. On top of this is that tire tech is far far advanced of the original design. I would recommend getting a set of aftermarket poly Sirocco suspension bushings up front to replace the likely cracked or rotted stock rubber ones. This is super cheap and easy.

'85 and 1/2 YM cars have a new welded casting exhaust header with more power and less weight, but they continually finds places to develop cracks at the welds of all the castings.

The rear hatches also separate from their glass frames, this results in a set of squeaks from the bowels of lower Sheol. This is probably the primary reason for the addition of a more modern hatch back 2+2 in my driveway last year. Some people have had success in re-gluing. I haven't been able to set aside the resources yet, but it will be a must as I get older and my ears are now more sensitive to it.

The other gripe with the 944, when someone takes an on ramp at 15MPH into a 70MPH zone during heavy traffic, you are in trouble!!!! The silly person doing this in front of you has a modern V6 sedan with 300HP, they can hit 70MPH in the merge area from a crawl. You'll be cringing as you shift to third gear at 55MPH watching the merge lane disappear. With a speed limit raise to 70MPH near here, I have to divert and take a slightly longer way to a less used entrance ramp that lets me haul the 944 up to speed before the merge area. Slipping into traffic that is doing 80MPH is not exactly fun if you're stuck behind someone who wasn't already at speed by the bottom of the ramp.

The balance of the 944's handling is great, not quite as good as a 2015 911, but far better than my XK. Your choice of anti-roll bars can drastically change the car. Car's without rear anti-roll bars will have a lot more under steer. M474 cars will have the most oversteer of the factory setups. M30's will have the stiffest setup, but not as much oversteer as the front anti-roll bar is much thicker.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by stealthn

handled like a go cart; I could never break the back end loose.

I puzzle over this expression's use, every car that I've heard described this way, does not at all handle like a kart at a race track.

A go kart with its solid rear axle, requires you to corner with the inside tire just a hair off the ground combined with a moderate amount of thrust being applied to the outside rear. The off center thrust from the outside rear does most of your steering after initial turn in. Braking force causes the need for a lot of extra steering input to overcome the off center pull from the outside of center rotation.

The only car I have ever driven with even close to a go kart's handling, is a 2015 911, although it has a very nice suspension setup compared to a kart's solid setup. It still retained turning in a little slower, a little later, but taking nearly the entire corner with the right foot not at rest.

With a 944, there is a period you are still scrubbing speed as you enter the corner, higher entry speed, but not really getting on the throttle until after the apex, vs a kart, where you're on the throttle as soon as you're done braking.

[ckelly78z]

I have an 85.5 2.5 L N/A and love it, now that it has the new throttle cam, and the Wilks race chip. It sure seems like alot more than 150 HP, and really wants to rev beyond the 6500 redline in the first 4 gears (5 speed).

I was looking for a 3.0L S model, but couldn't find a decent one in my area for less than $10,000. The Turbo models seem like they have all been whipped on all thier lives except for the really expensive, low mileage ones, and I didn't want one that needed everything replaced.

[petrolhead611]

There is also the 924S in the same family, a lighter more aerodynamic car than the 944
with the same powerplant. Slightly cheaper to buy new, and and similarly to buy now.

[ledhedsymbols]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

968.

Big +1!

[scottmandue]

I had a 84, loved it dearly, miss it a lot.

Only car I ever driven that would drift sideways when I would go in too hot to a corner.

What everyone else said is pretty much right on.

I would not call the NA under powered... it had enough juice to make it fun to drive (see above comment about sliding when going into a curve at excessive speed.)

However if I had to do it again I would go with an S2 or 968... or a SBC conversion.

BTW the 951 can easily be moded to ~300HP

[Sunroof]

I owned a 1985.5 944 for thirteen years and sold it with 350,000+ miles to my mechanic with no major engine or transmission work (aside from a head gasket). For me only 85.5 or newer is the way to go as the changes are big improvements. Expect trouble with the oil cooler gasket, fluid motor mounts, A-arm bushings, cooling fan motors, expansion tank warp, sunroof relays, electronic temperature control dash unit, water pump, timing belt and seals, torque tube noise, rubber centered clutch deterioration, etc, etc, etc. BUT!!!!! once you fix or replace expect to go another 150,000 miles.

Bob
73.5T

[sugarwood]

This was a good history
Yuppie Sports, Part 2: The Porsche 944 and 968 - Ate Up With Motor

[CJFusco]

Don't let the thread name fool you: there's actually a lot of good information on the 944 series discussed here recently -- Tell me about 924 Turbos

My comments, in short: I've owned four Porsches, and three of them were in the 944 series. The 944NA that followed the 924 and 924 Turbo (931) was better-engineered, more robust, more durable, just as fast (not very), and had a 100% Porsche engine (as opposed to the 924 series, which borrowed its engine from an Audi van). The early 924s will likely be collectibles at some point, but their reputation is that they aren't very good cars. They would likely be fun to drive, especially if one were to freshen up the suspension a bit, as they are very light and had a near-perfect 50/50 weight distribution. But, again, the 944 is a better car in just about every measurable way.

944NA (especially the early cars): Light-weight, especially when compared to the later cars. Easy to toss into corners, especially after very moderate suspension mods (thicker sway bars, strut tower brace, slightly lower springs). 2.5 liter Porsche engine, essentially half of the 928's V8.

924S: Basically the same thing as an early 944NA, but in a narrower, slightly-lighter 924 body. Same engine as 944NA.

944 Turbo (951): FAST, especially after some bolt-on engine mods. A bit heavier than the 944NA and 924S, but it more than makes up for it with raw speed. The rush of the turbocharger in this thing is addictive. In my experience, these cars are also overly-complex and maintenance-heavy.

944S2: More powerful than the 944NA (3.0 inline four), and faster, but also heavier. Not quite as quick as the 951, but a smoother power delivery; a good, comfortable highway cruiser.

968: Like the 944S2, but newer/better/more refined.

My main experience owning 944s centered around an early 944NA and a 951. My 83 944 was stripped down (I had removed the rear seats and extra weight from the cargo area, and replaced the stock front seats with Corbeau lightweight race buckets) and had nice suspension modifications (KONI yellows, Weltmeister lowering springs, thicker sway bars, strut tower brace) as well as a performance chip. That car was a blast to drive, as it was nearly impossible to upset through a corner. It wasn't particularly fast, but it was so fun to drive.

The 951 was a different beast. After some bolt-on mods, it was FAST. Legitimately fast. But it also "felt" heavier and softer than my 944NA. Maybe if I put as much time and money into suspension work as I did in bolt-on engine mods it might have been firmer, but the rush of the turbo was the thrill I got from that car. The 951 is a huge PITA to work on, and (in my experience) needs near-constant attention. I did, however, become a fairly competent DIYer simply because I owned one and tried to keep it running for 6 years!

Now that I own a Cayman S, part of me wants to, add a 944 to the garage again, and that part of me would like my 83 car back. It just scratches a different itch -- something closer to what you'd get from a nicely set-up 914 than what you'd get from a modern Porsche. So: if I were in the market for a 944, I would consider an early 944NA or the 924S. If I didn't have the Cayman S, my needs might be different, but there you go.

[JeremyD]

I just went though this when I sold my 911 and have been very happy with the 944 s2 that I picked up.

I picked up a car that needed a little work (cause I can do the work) and ended up doing a clutch, and coil overs, belt changes, water pump, etc...

I've had it at the track - and really if you get it up on it's toes - a great car to drive fast - very balanced - the 3.0 liter really is pretty torquey - (I think more so than the 3.2 flat six)

It's a solid car - drives like a Porsche - door closes like a Porsche - AC actually works - there is a lot of good. BTW - weighs around 2800 lbs - so not what I would consider a porker

[petrolhead611]

Not a good article, just a rehash of everything said before, and includes at no extra charge the hoary old myth about the 924 engine being from the LT van(which we was a later product). That engine was a Mercedes basic design-yes it was-check your automotive history), the bottom end of which was strong enough to survive 24 hours at Le Mans putting out 375 BHP. Actually the old Nissan straight 6 is good for 800BHP in road use( several Skylines in the UK running that kind of power) and that was alledgedly a copy of a Mercedes design too.

[CJFusco]

Originally Posted by JeremyD

It's a solid car - drives like a Porsche - door closes like a Porsche - AC actually works - there is a lot of good. BTW - weighs around 2800 lbs - so not what I would consider a porker

Yeah, even the 951 would be considered to be on the lighter side of the sports car market today; at 2800lbs, the S2 would be one of the lightest sports cars on today's market. Without bothering to look it up, I'd guess that Lotus and the Mazda MX5 (Miata) provide the notable exceptions.

[Dantilla]

I've owned:

924
944 NA
944 S
944 S2
944 Turbo
...and driven & Autocrossed a friend's 968 quite a bit.

Not much more to add other than that the Turbo is not my favorite for street driving. Between the lack of low-end grunt before the turbo builds any boost, and the extra tall gearing, it is slow off the line. Not pleasant in stop & go traffic. It is clearly geared for the Autobahn, as 5th gear is unusable below 70 mph.

All of the 944 Turbo's deficiencies disappear on the track.

The S2 is nearly as fast, but with gobs of low-end torque. Wonderful car.

968 is more refined, but 968-specific parts can be hard to find, and expensive. Normal maintenance stuff like oil filters are widely available, but if you need any body parts.....

Racing a Spec 944 is a hoot! So much fun when a gaggle of (nearly) identically-prepped cars out there together, and they're the among the most reliable cars out there. We come off the track, pop the helmets off, grab a water bottle and yuk it up over who had the nasty tank-slapper in turn three while all the other cars are up on jackstands, bodywork coming off, wrenches flying. All we do is add a splash of gas and we're ready to head back out.

[CJFusco]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

Not much more to add other than that the Turbo is not my favorite for street driving. Between the lack of low-end grunt before the turbo builds any boost, and the extra tall gearing, it is slow off the line. Not pleasant in stop & go traffic. It is clearly geared for the Autobahn, as 5th gear is unusable below 70 mph.

All of the 944 Turbo's deficiencies disappear on the track.

I agree -- to a point. I found that some very minor modifications make the 951 more streetable: the Lindsey Racing Boost "Enhancer" somehow (magic?) makes it so that the turbo begins spooling at a noticeably lower RPM. IIRC (and this might be totally wrong -- it's from memory), it holds some of the pressure so that the turbo isn't "starting from scratch" every time it begins to build boost. I also find that a chip set (one for each box) makes the car much more responsive and flattens out the torque curve quite a bit.

Originally Posted by Dantilla

Racing a Spec 944 is a hoot! So much fun when a gaggle of (nearly) identically-prepped cars out there together, and they're the among the most reliable cars out there. We come off the track, pop the helmets off, grab a water bottle and yuk it up over who had the nasty tank-slapper in turn three while all the other cars are up on jackstands, bodywork coming off, wrenches flying. All we do is add a splash of gas and we're ready to head back out.

This sounds super fun. What steps would one take to get involved in such an enterprise?