A view of Musk I share.....

[cairns]

His cars are pretty nice. But I don't want to pay for something I don't own...

Column: Elon Musk, crony capitalist king
Eric Peters 11:36 p.m. EDT May 9, 2016
Elon Musk
(Photo: Marcio Jose Sanchez / AP)
If Elon Musk’s various projects are so fabulous, why do they all need government “help”?

Musk will tell you all about the virtues of his Tesla cars. They are sleek and speedy. This is true. But they are also very expensive (the least expensive model, the pending Model X, will reportedly start around $35K, about the same price as a luxury sedan like the Lexus ES350).

The real problem with Tesla cars is that no one actually buys them. Well, not directly.

Their manufacture is heavily subsidized — and their sale is heavily subsidized. Either way, the taxpayer is the one who gets the bill.

On the manufacturing end, Tesla got $1.3 billion in special “incentives” from the state of Nevada to build its battery factory there. This includes an exemption from having to pay any property taxes for the next 20 years. Another inducement was $195 million in transferable tax credits, which Tesla could sell for cash. California provides similar incentives, including $15 million to “create jobs” in the state.

Tesla does not make money by selling cars, either. It makes money by selling “carbon credits” to real car companies that make functionally and economically viable vehicles that can and do sell on the merits — but which are not “zero emissions” vehicles, as the electric Tesla is claimed to be.

Laws in nine states require each car company selling cars in the state to sell a certain number of “zero emissions” vehicles, else be fined. Since only electric cars qualify under the law as “zero emissions” vehicles — and the majority of cars made by the real car companies are not electric cars — they end up having to “purchase” these “carbon credits” from Tesla, subsidizing Tesla’s operations.

The amount Tesla has “earned” this way is in the neighborhood of $517 million.

It is estimated that Musk’s various ventures — including his new SolarCity solar panel operation and SpaceX — have cost taxpayers at least $4.9 billion, with Tesla accounting for about half of that dole.

Musk might point out that other businesses also get “help” from the government (that is, from taxpayers), but the real difference between Musk’s operations and those of say General Motors is that General Motors’ products are fundamentally viable while Tesla’s are not.

GM is happy to accept government “help” when offered, but it is not necessary for taxpayers to bankroll the production of Corvettes — nor provide thousands of dollars in cash incentives to each prospective buyer in order to “stimulate” sales.

Tesla could not build a single car without the government’s help. Or rather, the actual cost would be so prohibitive that virtually no one would buy a Tesla.

Yet even with massive subsidies at the manufacturing level and then again at the retail level, each Tesla still “sells” at a loss of several thousand dollars per car.

Why are taxpayers being forced to support the “purchase” of electric exotic cars? Why should taxpayers be made to subsidize any of Musk’s businesses?

The heroic real-life Tony Stark image notwithstanding, Musk is an operator — not a creator of value.

Eric Peters is the author of “Automotive Atrocities: The Cars We Love to Hate.” This has been adapted from InsideSources.

[sammyg2]

The company I work for has to pay around $75 million a year to buy tax credits from companies like tesla who get them for free.

Tesla is a scam company and is living off our tax money and Musk is history's most successful con-man. And the only reason he gets away with it is because of the people currently in charge in our gubmints.

[DanielDudley]

Solar electric is now being installed world wide at a rate that surpasses new Fossil Fuel plants. Solar electric power in Mexico is now costing around 4 cents a kilowatt hour, and is no longer government funded.

Even counting in Solyndra, US Government investments in alternative energy have more than paid for themselves.

Electric cars may not be quite the pipe dream some would make them out to be.

[cairns]

Solar electric is now being installed world wide at a rate that surpasses new Fossil Fuel plants. Solar electric power in Mexico is now costing around 4 cents a kilowatt hour, and is no longer government funded.

Even counting in Solyndra, US Government investments in alternative energy have more than paid for themselves.

Electric cars may not be quite the pipe dream some would make them out to be.

Understand. New Mexico is very sunny. You have to ask how does their yield compare with say, London, Bangkok, or Washington DC (let alone Seattle Washington)? And how many eagles or plain jane birds get fried flying over those solar fields?

[techweenie]

Pretty ignorant article. Every car company gets similar offers. When Nissan moved to TN & MS, the tax breaks were in the millions. If NV wants to throw $1.3 B at Tesla for a battery co, it costs me nothing. Because I don't pay taxes in NV.

From the late 2000s, every car model meeting certain emission goals earned a federal tax credit up to a certain volume. I think it was $7500 each for the first 200K qualifying vehicles from each manufacturer. The idea was to prime the pump & get plug-in cars on the road. So with 500K Tesla Model 3s spoken for, maybe 200K will not earn a Federal tax credit. And Priuses would also be on the way to sucking up all Toyota's buyers' credits

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

Solar electric is now being installed world wide at a rate that surpasses new Fossil Fuel plants. Solar electric power in Mexico is now costing around 4 cents a kilowatt hour, and is no longer government funded.

Even counting in Solyndra, US Government investments in alternative energy have more than paid for themselves.

Electric cars may not be quite the pipe dream some would make them out to be.

Solar is awesome! It is a great supplement. In our lifetime It will not replace or even come close to replacing what we do with coal and fossil fuels. But yes it's still
worth doing, especially on an individual scale.

[rusnak]

Musk knows people are lazy and stupid in America. And they'll buy anything. That's how we get the battery powered car. Buy it to help save the planet. That's right, the whole freaking planet.

[Gogar]

Does musk claim his cars will save the planet?

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Musk knows people are lazy and stupid in America. And they'll buy anything. That's how we get the battery powered car. Buy it to help save the planet. That's right, the whole freaking planet.

I bought my Volt to save some money. I don't think it will contribute much to saving the planet. But keep pushing your stupid stereotype. I'm sure there are a lot of people who still buy it.

[aigel]

Needs moved to PARF - good lord!!!

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by aigel

Needs moved to PARF - good lord!!!

Pretty much

[legion]

Elon Musk: rent-seeking bastard.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

Solar electric is now being installed world wide at a rate that surpasses new Fossil Fuel plants. Solar electric power in Mexico is now costing around 4 cents a kilowatt hour, and is no longer government funded.

Even counting in Solyndra, US Government investments in alternative energy have more than paid for themselves.

Electric cars may not be quite the pipe dream some would make them out to be.

I'm in the solar business. I don't think so.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Gogar

Solar is awesome! It is a great supplement. In our lifetime It will not replace or even come close to replacing what we do with coal and fossil fuels. But yes it's still
worth doing, especially on an individual scale.

I depends on the use. Compared to running a small generator, solar is very effective. Compared to electricity produced in an electric plant, is is not.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by legion

Elon Musk: rent-seeking bastard.

I wish I had his marketing team!

Mi-Grid | Hybrid Energy System

[brianvb]

+1
I sell solar also . Great for RV's, weak for housing.
However, a co-generating furnace can make power from the light of the fire using gallium/antiminide solar cells. Very interesting. It solves the whole winter/night time problem.

[kaisen]

OF course Cairns would PARF-up a thread about Tesla. He's done it for several years now. Every single time. Without fail.

[mistertate]

Originally Posted by cairns

Understand. And how many eagles or plain jane birds get fried flying over those solar fields?

dude

[Gogar]

Originally Posted by red-beard

I depends on the use. Compared to running a small generator, solar is very effective. Compared to electricity produced in an electric plant, is is not.

Yes, that's what I meant, and you said it again, and better!

[petrolhead611]

Study just completed by an university in England has concluded that much of the pollution from cars is due to brake dust and tyre particles, and in the UK electric cars and to a lesser extent hybrids, being significantly heavier than regular cars, pollute just as as fossil fuelled cars because of increased tyre and brake wear. In the US where most privately owned vehicles are small lorries, or at least weigh as much anyway, the difference may not be so marked, but the tyre wear and brake dust pollution will be very significant from all those vehicles