How did the tail-end of Baby-Boomers produce such dysfunction?

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by JD159

Good answer.

Wouldn't increasing the min wage locally drive those businesses that have to conform out of that area to a cheaper area? It would be like musical chairs but instead of moving ones buttocks, you move economic activity.

Yep.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

really? i don't thread after thread started by folks complaining how lazy, entitled and stupid boomers are.

yet this is a fairly regular occurrence when it comes to millennials.

This is 100% spot on and why I chime in on these threads especially. The thread starts and everyone clinks glasses about how lazy my generation is.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

yeah it would be a HUGE boon for them.

more customers, with more money. nothing increases the velocity of money like low wage workers making more money.

in fact, most small businesses support raising the minimum wage: Small Business Majority Poll - Small Businesses Support Increasing Minimum Wage

Since many would be fired, there would be less of them. All of the fast food joints are eliminating the person who takes an order to be replaced by a kiosk. Kiosks don't buy stuff or even pay taxes.

Self-service kiosks are replacing workers - Business Insider

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/571f795c9105842b008beea2-2250-1502/mcdonald's%20create%20your%20taste-6.jpg

[JD159]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Since many would be fired, there would be less of them. All of the fast food joints are eliminating the person who takes an order to be replaced by a kiosk. Kiosks don't buy stuff or even pay taxes.

Self-service kiosks are replacing workers - Business Insider

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/571f795c9105842b008beea2-2250-1502/mcdonald's%20create%20your%20taste-6.jpg

Now this gets interesting. Forget about increasing minimum wage if all the minimum wage jobs are replaced by robots, which is basically inevitable.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

It does not work like that in the real world. Sorry Komrade.

People should get paid based on what their labor or work is worth, supply and demand.

If any idiot off the street can do a job, and there are plenty of idiots WILLING to do it, then that job should pay about 50 cents an hour tops. (no offense CP)

If a a person's work is very valuable and contributes a great deal to the profitability of a company, and there are only a very few people available who can perform that work at that high level, then that job should pay extremely well.

The world needs ditch diggers too Danny.

No minimum wage, no communism. It doesn't work, it never has and never will.

Never said it did. Said it would be nice. Canada is considering a minimum monthly income for all adults in the range of 12.5k to 15k.

[tabs]

So even the MickeyD's jobs are going away...

With so many jobs going away who is going to be buying their krap? WIC only goes so far as somebody has to pay the taxes, and if no body is working no taxes.

Technology is a two edged sword...so much more productive but so many fewer working. Can't sell the products the machines make if no one can afford to buy them. Ain't that sweet.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by JD159

Now this gets interesting. Forget about increasing minimum wage if all the minimum wage jobs are replaced by robots, which is basically inevitable.

My ex-wife had a 4 year degree in Medical Technology. In the late 1990's, I said to her that the lab work they were doing was being automated away. One point I made was digital cameras with a computer would be able to do the microscope and blood cell, etc, counts without a human. She needed to move into management or she'd be out of a job.

If something is repetitive, it can be automated.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by JD159

Never said it did. Said it would be nice. Canada is considering a minimum monthly income for all adults in the range of 12.5k to 15k.

How will that work?

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Since many would be fired, there would be less of them. All of the fast food joints are eliminating the person who takes an order to be replaced by a kiosk. Kiosks don't buy stuff or even pay taxes.

Self-service kiosks are replacing workers - Business Insider

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/571f795c9105842b008beea2-2250-1502/mcdonald's%20create%20your%20taste-6.jpg

luddite fallacy.

for claiming to know economics, the anti-minimum wage folks sure seem to not know much besides high school economics.

ie, its the drop in price of computers, touch screens etc, that will make them replace humans for taking orders at fast food joints. thats just science *****es. its not actually an argument against raising the minimum wage.

[daepp]

First the local restaurant began having customers order from a tablet and all the waitresses were let go.

Not the local car wash has eliminated all the out-front guys - a big number here. Customers will now be selecting the wash they want and paying for it at a keyboard/kiosk. Probably eliminated 6 jobs.

And so it goes...

[daepp]

Wow, no sooner than I typed that and I walk in to get a sandwich and what do I see - another group of no-wage, no work comp employees:

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by daepp

First the local restaurant began having customers order from a tablet and all the waitresses were let go.

Not the local car wash has eliminated all the out-front guys - a big number here. Customers will now be selecting the wash they want and paying for it at a keyboard/kiosk. Probably eliminated 6 jobs.

And so it goes...

and why shouldnt they? if a machine can do it more efficiently, then a machine should.

again, for claiming to know economics, no one arguing against raising the minimum wage seems to know any ...

[JD159]

Originally Posted by red-beard

How will that work?

Easier to read than for me to explain!

A Basic Income For Ontario? Province Plans Pilot Project As Part Of Budget

A Canadian province is about to start trialling universal basic income - ScienceAlert

[daepp]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

and why shouldnt they? if a machine can do it more efficiently, then a machine should.

again, for claiming to know economics, no one arguing against raising the minimum wage seems to know any ...

That's right - if a machine can do it cheaper and with equal effectiveness then a business is crazy for not using them. But what makes them cost effective are increases to the minimum wage.

I'm curious - what is it that makes you think that you're so knowledgeable about economics?

[JD159]

Originally Posted by daepp

That's right - if a machine can do it cheaper and with equal effectiveness then a business is crazy for not using them. But what makes them cost effective are increases to the minimum wage.

I'm curious - what is it that makes you think that you're so knowledgeable about economics?

I don't think you could have a minimum wage low enough, unless you eliminated it, to curb the kind of automation your witnessing

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by daepp

FWIW my comments re the Greatest Generation were for that close minded little Punk.

And also re that same demographic, aren't they all retirement age or worse?

Personally I think the Boomers (my age and older) get as much of the blame as anyone. And it's the retired Boomers who may have to get off their butts and get back to work - especially those who retire in their 50's, and I don't care what they did for a living.

I think we agree.

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Here is the deal: I own a small business, am partnered in another. All you folks are doing is making labels and trying to hang them on someone.

We look for smart, talented people with a work ethic. When we find them we pay them accordingly. The four best composite lay-up workers we have are a family from Romania, here legally. Dad was a MIG-21 pilot, Mom ran a fiberglass lay-up shop and their two children are more focused than CP with a paintball gun at $20 an hour.

Nobody in small business cares if you are a Millennial or the Millennium Falcon.

Can you contribute to our bottom line? The average small business hire stays with the small business two years before moving on. I hire talent, not age.

Here's the problem: I've been hiring and employing people since I was the age that the millenials are now. I've noticed that it's gotten much more difficult to hire ENTRY LEVEL employees that are ready to learn and work in that time. Forget the labels for a second - they just lack the willingness to work their way up. The new entry level worker wants to start as a supervisor level. I think you went with an immigrant why? Because they are willing to work up the ladder, that's why.

Anyone can 'contribute to the bottom line'. The issue is that your least productive employees are getting an automatic pay raise. And in the case of California, that automatic raise is 100% in 6 years. That is hyper inflationary and is not sustainable. There will be a strain just to survive, let alone have any money left over for raises, bonus, and investment in the other more productive employees. I have a long standing relationship with my veteran crew that I will raise their pay and give them bonuses. I have given out over 50 pay raises. This year will be the first that there are no bonuses to give out. And I'm going to take a pay cut so that the business can grow, which it has by 25% or more every year for the past 5 years. We took a step back when the minimum wage increased by 25% in two years.

Those who say 'you can afford it' are mistaken. We can't afford it. And if you want to know what you're worth, you millenials that are here on the forum, go start your own business and then look at your bank account. That will tell you your real worth to the economy. Otherwise you just don't know what you're saying and don't really want to know either.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by daepp

Wow, no sooner than I typed that and I walk in to get a sandwich and what do I see - another group of no-wage, no work comp employees:

Panera has really lousy customer service IMO. Our standard is much higher than theirs. And most jobs can't be automated. That whole line of thinking is an experiment right now, and frankly only the egg-head engineering types will think that it's a good idea.

[JD159]

Originally Posted by rusnak

I think we agree.


Those who say 'you can afford it' are mistaken. We can't afford it. And if you want to know what you're worth, you millenials that are here on the forum, go start your own business and then look at your bank account. That will tell you your real worth to the economy. Otherwise you just don't know what you're saying and don't really want to know either.

I turn 25 monday. I graduated and worked for the family business. Learned a lot about how the world works. The amazing part is I work directly with other business owners as well as the general public. All related to finance. These business owners range from mom and pop shops to multi million dollar companies. You get to see how people are really doing, considering I handle the financial information and credit details of THEIR customers.

This was my millennial problem. Had great experience. I'm pretty well rounded, considering I also do web development. My degree held me back. Despite my experience, nobody else wants to hire a philosophy major and pay me more than I was making.

So it was back to school for me. 45k is the cost for my MBA. It's a co op program with 12 months management only work experience. Part of the job requirement. Will make about 4-5k a month.

Even with experience people will turn you down.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by JD159

I turn 25 monday. I graduated and worked for the family business. Learned a lot about how the world works. The amazing part is I work directly with other business owners as well as the general public. All related to finance. These business owners range from mom and pop shops to multi million dollar companies. You get to see how people are really doing, considering I handle the financial information and credit details of THEIR customers.

This was my millennial problem. Had great experience. I'm pretty well rounded, considering I also do web development. My degree held me back. Despite my experience, nobody else wants to hire a philosophy major and pay me more than I was making.

So it was back to school for me. 45k is the cost for my MBA. It's a co op program with 12 months management only work experience. Part of the job requirement. Will make about 4-5k a month.

Even with experience people will turn you down.

Congratulations! You are at a crucial, very crucial cross roads. Do a 50 year plan. I was thinking about an JD/ MBA really hard when I was your age. I ended up building subdivisions and living off of crumbs for about 10 years until I bought out my boss. What you're doing now is working for your kids' education, then you'll be working for your retirement.

I tell young people that unless you really really absolutely need that degree, after the age of 25 you should really question it. The most important contribution that your brain makes is to tell your body to get up and get working, if you're an entrepreneurial type. If you're a corporate bot, then that's not true because you're playing the political game for the rest of your life and the sheepskin is a big deal in that world. The world is full of people with great ideas. Those who make a difference will learn how to execute, which is learned in the work world by learning from other people. One big difference in the MBA program is that you get a massive head start in the business networking world. The alumni network will be worth the price of admission if it's a great school. Again, my best wishes for you and your dreams.

[flyenby]

When I started working on the Waterfront....I was told by an old hardworking guy.."You either have it.....or you dont"