A10 Warthog

[jyl]

I'm curious about the retirement and replacement of this airplane. When, why, and with what?

[TheMentat]

I'm sure there are other more knowledgeable folks here who could add more, but I just read this the other day:

The A-10 Warthog Won’t Last Forever. Here Are 5 Potential Successors - Bloomberg

[GH85Carrera]

The B-52 is older than any active duty pilot. The KC-135 is just about there as well but it's replacement is about to get into full production.

We sure need to either make a better A-10 or start making more A-10s.

I was at a social event and was listening to two men discuss the A-10. One was a former A-10 pilot and the other a former tank commander and both had been in the first gulf war. It was fascinating to listen to them both. The tank commander at one point said something like "that A-10 transformed before my eyes from the ugliest airplane to the most beautiful thing I had ever seen" Evidently the A-10 had destroyed some "problems" for the ground guys. It just shredded some Iraqi armor.

[911_Dude]

The Army loves the A10. For some reason that doesnt matter to the folks in DC that write the checks.

[LWJ]

I saw a-10s flying in Idaho years ago. They were spooky. Unlike any airplane I have seen. They seemed to defy physics - in a good way. Hard to explain.

[flipper35]

The Warthog is getting old and if we go to war with any peer state it will not be involved in the initial fighting since it has a much harder time surviving against current air defenses.

On the Bloomberg article there were a couple points I would like to counter. There is no chance the GAU-8 Avenger or similar cannon is going in anything unless it is a new airframe. Also, the F35 is designed for CAS and not just for dogfighting. From all accounts the F-35 is a capable dogfighter but it was designed to move mud around very well and the Air Force does not designate the same as the Navy did with the F/A-18 so it isn't the F/A 35. That said it is a fast mover and would not be good at the loiter and kill role the A-10 has. With the guided munitions we have the F-35 can do the role, but it will accomplish it in a very different way.

The sad fact is, the Air force does not like the plane and have been actively trying to kill it off for a long time. The A-10 is unique in its abilities and there isn't anything on the horizon that will be a direct replacement for it. Nothing else has the loiter ability with the heavy weapons load and a significant amount of armor and redundancy built in. But, it isn't fast, doesn't look sexy and is the outcast child in the Air Force. Not with the pilots, just the brass.

The Air force pilots are a resourceful bunch. One Strike Eagle crew "shot" down an Iraqi helicopter in flight with a Paveway LGB so there may be some adaptations from the crew now that the F-35 is in IOC.

I should add, had I perfect vision the Warthog would have been at the top of my list.

[Mike Billings]

In the photo, I'm testing a HUD upgrade for the A-10. It was in 2007.



You can always put new parts on it!

[scottmandue]

I cannot confirm or deny but I think I read somewhere that because of the difficulty of finding a replacement they are planing (or continuing) to build more A-10's.

I was leaving Las Vegas heading to Utah and a group of A-10 were doing maneuvers... several cars pulled off of I-15 and we got a impromptu air show.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by flipper35

I should add, had I perfect vision the Warthog would have been at the top of my list.

Right out of college, I could have joined NY Air National Guard. I wanted to fly and I wanted to fly the A-10. Low and slow. It wasn't sexy. It was purpose built.

My allergies disqualified me from pilot training, so I never went in. If I had, I would have been finished with training and probably involved in the first Iraq war.

[cockerpunk]

dat GAU8

[flipper35]

They tried a modified one (GAU-13/GPU-5) on several different aircraft and it could even be fitted to an F-5 which sounds like a disaster there.

The results were less than desirable. In fact, they were horrible. Within the first 48 hours of continuous combat operations the GEPOD30s were proven to be totally unable to satisfy their intended mission. Precision fire was almost impossible with the setup as the F-16s software had not been adequately modified for aiming, and the vibration was so bad when the gun was fired that software tweaks probably would have made little difference anyway and it wreaked havoc on the F-16's sensitive electronics and mechanical components.

The reality is that the system was so ill-suited to the aircraft that just firing the gun multiple times would tweak the pylon it is attached to and thus it would become skewed far off zero. Not to mention that in comparison to the low and slower flying A-10, in actual combat the F-16's high speed made it hard to get a proper sight picture to aim during long strafing runs. Apparently maintainers and pilots had warned that the gun was ill-suited for the light fighter long before the deployment, but their mission was to try and make it work.

The F-16 Gun Pod That Tried To Shoot Down The A-10 Warthog

[M.D. Holloway]

replaced with drones...

[flipper35]

The CBU-97 works well and they are only getting better.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by M.D. Holloway

replaced with drones...

A drone can shoot a few missiles and hit a few targets. Not even close to the on board cannon of the A-10 destructive force. And the A-10 can carry missiles as well.

[legion]

I'd imagine that a drone with the capabilities of the A10 would end up looking a lot like the A10, without the cockpit. The size of the airframe is pretty much dictated by the size of the GAU8, which in turn is dictated by the size of a 25 mm round. The flat wings are there for slow-speed flying. The gun is mounted inline with the centerline of the aircraft (or, more accurately, the firing barrel is). It is built for a purpose, and does it well.

[flipper35]

It is the 30mm round and not the dinky 30mm the Apache uses either. The F-35 uses a 25mm round and carries 184 rounds I believe.

You are correct, the cannon was designed and then the aircraft designed around it.

While not a dogfighter it has taken down fighters such as the F-16 when the Viper comes down to play with the Warthog. 7g's at 300kts is a surprisingly tight turn to those fighter jocks pulling 8-9gs at 450kts and no plane wants to be in front of that cannon, though they carry the AIM9L as well.

Glen, the sensor fused weapons will take over the role of that big cannon and the SDB can glide out to 50 (or so I am told) miles to take out a building or encampment.

The A-10 is an awesome place kicker but it is a 45 year old place kicker and they are running more 2 point conversions now and only kick very long field goals now.

[tcar]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

The B-52 is older than any active duty pilot. ....

There was an article a number of months ago about a B-52 pilot...

...as was his father.

...as was his grandfather.

[flipper35]

The B-52 is slated to stay with us for a long time yet. I bet it outlasts the B-1.

[Craig T]

The A-10 was developed during the cold war primarily to defend NATO allies against USSR tank invasions. Russia can no longer afford that kind of invasion (as Afghanistan proved and Crimea will prove again), and could not survive a NATO attack in this global economy. Plus, their tanks are 40 years and most are rusted POS's.

They'd never catch NATO by surprise in 2016, considering our advancements in satellite and reconnaissance technologies since the early 80's when A-10's valued. We'd see them coming as soon as they stared massing. A few drones and stealth fighters dropping BIG bombs will be plenty of deterrent.

Other than Russia, China, and the USA, who's left with a significant Tank and armored ground assault capability. The EU kinda prevents Germany from attacking Poland. That's not going to happen again.

The A-10 was an awesome plane. I NDI'd them at RAF Bentwaters in 1980. I loved em...But like the Vought VE-7 Bluebird, the world has moved on.

[cgarr]

if I was pinned down that would be the plane I would want covering me! That is one bad ass plane,