Sump Pump - Power out options

[Icemaster]

Gents,

I've got a sump pump drawing 9.7 amps on 110VAC that I'm trying to sort a solution for a power-out scenarios. Everything I'm reading on options revolves around a retrofit, adding in a lower capacity/amp 12V pump (or an inverter) with a deep cycle battery.

Can't see why I couldn't hook my existing pump to a UPS (I have a couple) or an inverter/transfer switch to a marine battery; same concept as a plug & play UPS.

I don't need this to run for a lengthy period of time, and it's not a continuous run scenario. I believe the startup would be a peak amp draw and that may be a factor, but there's got to be something else in here that I'm missing.

Does this make sense? Is this a good/bad idea? What should I watch out for?

[1990C4S]

The UPS won't last too long with a 1200 Watt load...

[VincentVega]

That is a decent load. My concern is pump failure, not just power outage. The added pump, power and plumbing gives extra piece of mind. Add in the pump is 12v to begin with and I think its a more efficient/cleaner solution.

Zoeller makes a nice system for ~$350.

[wdfifteen]

I had a Zoeller 12 volt auxiliary pump for a while. It was a pain and went through a battery before I ever used it. This was years ago and battery maintainers are better than they were then, so a battery operated one might be a better solution that it used to be. I second having a second pump, then you've got both pump failure and power outage covered.

I know it's not much help to you, but my solution is a big ol' stainless steel sewage ejector pump that will chew up and spit out a small goat and an inverter in my Chevy Volt. I have a second pump standing by that I can drop in and hook up in about 15 minutes. As long as I'm home if the wet floor alarm goes off I'm in good shape. Next step is a natural gas powered whole house generator.

[Icemaster]

Looked at the Zoeller drop-in kits; good if I didn't have something already there but I'm trying to avoid overkill. I'm all about redundancy, but applied properly. My reasoning is why spend the extra $$$ on a kit when I've got most of the high dollar parts on hand less a 12V pump. And, if I don't need to buy that...

Good point on the UPS though. The extra I have is a line interactive 1.5Kva sitting in my rack in the basement gathering dust, have to pull up the spec on it. Granted, they're designed more to allow graceful shutdowns and transfers than long term backup.

The whole house generator hasn't left my option list.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Icemaster

Looked at the Zoeller drop-in kits; good if I didn't have something already there but I'm trying to avoid overkill. I'm all about redundancy, but applied properly. My reasoning is why spend the extra $$$ on a kit when I've got most of the high dollar parts on hand less a 12V pump. And, if I don't need to buy that...

Good point on the UPS though. The extra I have is a line interactive 1.5Kva sitting in my rack in the basement gathering dust, have to pull up the spec on it. Granted, they're designed more to allow graceful shutdowns and transfers than long term backup.

The whole house generator hasn't left my option list.

UPS is interesting idea, the one you have sounds pretty big, why not just plug the pump in to it and fill the sump with water and see if it works?

[tevake]

You could get one of those Honda 2000 generators, they make AC power.
Another one can be linked to it for enough to power to carry a little of your house if needed.

Are you in the path of Hermine? All the best if so.

Cheers Richard

[berettafan]

We added a trasfer switch and a small generator. Power fails we just fire up portable gen and plug into transfer switch.

[gr8fl4porsche]

Look into a city water back up sump pump. It is a secondary sump pump that operates off of three-quarter inch waterline. Once the float is activated, city water flows over the pick up tube and sucks water out of the sump. It ties into your existing drain line. I have it installed at my house. It has saved me during power outages, sump pump failures, more than once.


Liberty Pumps SJ10 1-1/2-Inch Discharge SumpJet Water Powered Back-Up Pump On Amazon.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by Icemaster

Gents,

I've got a sump pump drawing 9.7 amps on 110VAC that I'm trying to sort a solution for a power-out scenarios. Everything I'm reading on options revolves around a retrofit, adding in a lower capacity/amp 12V pump (or an inverter) with a deep cycle battery.

Can't see why I couldn't hook my existing pump to a UPS (I have a couple) or an inverter/transfer switch to a marine battery; same concept as a plug & play UPS.
.....

9.7amps @ 110v is about 1100W. If the inverter is about 90% efficient (wild guess) you are looking at about 100 Amps at 12v.(1200W) Assuming a car battery with 50 Amp-Hr (600W) you would be lucky to get 30 minutes.

[Icemaster]

Originally Posted by dad911

Assuming a car battery with 50 Amp-Hr (600W) you would be lucky to get 30 minutes.

Yeah, thought of that and timed the cycling of the pump, it runs for 8-10 seconds every 2 - 2.5 minutes between when the basin fills back up in a fairly heavy rain, so even losing some because of startup I'd still be OK with that, it equates out to between 2-3 hours which is usually more than enough to invoke plan C or the power to come back.

Originally Posted by gr8fl4porsche

Look into a city water back up sump pump. It is a secondary sump pump that operates off of three-quarter inch waterline. Once the float is activated, city water flows over the pick up tube and sucks water out of the sump. It ties into your existing drain line. I have it installed at my house. It has saved me during power outages, sump pump failures, more than once.

Liberty Pumps SJ10 1-1/2-Inch Discharge SumpJet Water Powered Back-Up Pump On Amazon.

Thank you - I saw those also and didn't rule them out, it wouldn't be too difficult to tie into the waterline nearby.

Originally Posted by rwest

UPS is interesting idea, the one you have sounds pretty big, why not just plug the pump in to it and fill the sump with water and see if it works?

I'm gonna do just that, simulate a power outage and see what happens next time we get a decent rain.

My biggest worry is being out at a client site and not here to throw a transfer switch or fire up the generator when the power does go out. Looking for something automated. We got 3.5 inches in about 30 minutes last Sunday night, fared well but lost power for a couple hours and had a mess to clean up. Nothing squeegees fans and dehumidifiers couldn't take care of, but had we not been here the finished area would have been a wreck.

We got off lucky, lots of folks fared far worse.

Thank you all for the input, why I love this place.

[cstreit]

If you have city water, I'd suggest the water driven pumps. Otherwise the battery backups work well. We are on well, my battery backup has two batteries, gives me 4 hours of backup sump at the highest flow rate my drains can put out.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by gr8fl4porsche

Look into a city water back up sump pump. It is a secondary sump pump that operates off of three-quarter inch waterline. Once the float is activated, city water flows over the pick up tube and sucks water out of the sump. It ties into your existing drain line. I have it installed at my house. It has saved me during power outages, sump pump failures, more than once.


Liberty Pumps SJ10 1-1/2-Inch Discharge SumpJet Water Powered Back-Up Pump On Amazon.

Interesting.

[dad911]

Is there no way to get a gravity drain from your foundation to daylight? Have you piped the leaders away from the house, and make sure the grade is properly pitched away from the house?

[VincentVega]

I looked at a few pumps from Rule and think its a good option if you want to cobble something together. They have several 110v and 12v options with enough output to actually be useful. I like the 12v option to eliminate another failure point but each option works.

[1990C4S]

After further thought...

Get a smaller back-up pump and a Harbor Freight $100 generator. Or get a $500 generator and run your fridge and lights.

In a storm without power you do not want to be relying on a battery.

[Seahawk]

When I bought this place it was apparent that the basement drainage system was overwhelmed at times.

I put in two separate sump pump systems in case of a single pump failure. Each pump also has a back-up 12v battery back-up system should we loss power in a storm when no one is home. I also
keep a new, spare sump pump on a shelf in the basement should one of the two pumps fail.

I run back up generators that plug directly into the house. I have two gens, a gas powered model and a PTO powered model that all three of my tractor can run.

I know that all seems extreme, but the first time we had six inches of water in the furnished basement I promised myself I would take every reasonable precaution to make it the last.

[VincentVega]

Works great unless you arent home or the thing doesnt start. I'm sure I sound a bit old and cranky but after losing power during Sandy I have several layers are redundancy now. I hope I wasted my $$ and never need any of it.

[red-beard]

I know this is overkill for your application, but we build/sell an essentials circuit version of our Mi-Grid system.

You install a sub-panel in the house and it is connected to the inverter output of our smallest system. On the smallest system, you cover all 110VAC circuits: Outlets, Lights, Fans. This is also connected to about 5kW of Solar and a battery bank. A generator is also connected, to cover solar contingencies.

The 20kW Natural Gas/Propane Generator and ATS also covers "everything else". The beauty is, the 20kW generator only needs to run when you want to run 240VAC devices. It will auto start if the batteries get low in power, and recharge them.

A larger Mi-Grid system allows more (and 240VAC) devices to be on the inverter.

http://www.tetrawest.com/images/Mi-Grid_essentials.pdf

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by gr8fl4porsche

Look into a city water back up sump pump. It is a secondary sump pump that operates off of three-quarter inch waterline. Once the float is activated, city water flows over the pick up tube and sucks water out of the sump. It ties into your existing drain line. I have it installed at my house. It has saved me during power outages, sump pump failures, more than once.


Liberty Pumps SJ10 1-1/2-Inch Discharge SumpJet Water Powered Back-Up Pump On Amazon.

Take a serious look at this option. No pump to fail, no battery to die. I believe most city water pumping stations have generator backups and can't ever recall losing water pressure. You can spend a lot more money on far less reliable options.

Originally Posted by dad911

Is there no way to get a gravity drain from your foundation to daylight? Have you piped the leaders away from the house, and make sure the grade is properly pitched away from the house?

This is where you should start. When we purchased our house nine years ago there was a legitimate flow of water into the sump pump hole during a heavy rain, and the pump would run every 5 minutes or so. I did replace the pump just for peace of mind, but then I also brought in a bunch of dirt to insure a proper grade away from the foundation, buried my downspouts to tie into my back yard french drain system, extended the remaining downspouts away from the foundation, and tied the sump pump drain into the back yard french drains. These relatively simply fixes have yielded a sump pump that almost never runs, even in a very heavy rain.