pro auto mechanics. why the tight oil filters?

[rusnak]

Copper washer. Or aluminum.

[wdfifteen]

Gotta tell this story here>
When I owned my shop this happened twice. Time frame early 1970s. Saab 96 V4 comes in smokin' like a sum*****. In both cases the owners had tried to do their own maintenance. I both cases they drained all the oil out of the transmission and added four quarts to the engine. The transmission is in front of the engine in those cars - from underneath it looked like where the engine plug should be - and that was very unusual in those days. Read your owner's manual people.

[manbridge 74]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Copper washer. Or aluminum.

Furthermore, at least for most newer cars, copper washer generally used where surfaces are steel to steel. Aluminum washer where one or both surfaces are aluminum.

Older Porsche's do use aluminum washers on steel oil tank to steel plug though.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by 9dreizig

under tight and pay for an engine that blows up if it works it's way off.. simple

Originally Posted by pmax

This.

Better to overtighten than have the customer return with an oil leak.

For sure, a loose oil filter will cause a major mess but usually immediately or very quickly when it unscrews itself under pressure, in my experience. I've only had one filter come loose on me and it was a mess, it was a (then new) Saab 900 and I made the classic error of leaving an old rubber seal on the engine and installing the new filter over it. Long time ago but lesson learned.

If you install a new filter w a little clean oil on the sealing rubber and make sure that you did not leave the old rubber seal on motor, they are usually easy to properly tighten by hand. And as others have mentioned, they tend to get tighter in use, not looser.

[on2wheels52]

Try using the oil that just drained on the filter gasket.

[KNS]

The only oil filter I ever had leak was a Porsche brand oil filter, the smaller one on the 993. It was leaking right at the mounting surface, strange - it was not loose. I'd heard of a few issues with the small Porsche 993 filters so I went back to Mahle.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

"Have the new guy do the oil changes and tire rotations - he won't do any harm that way".

WRONG!

The issue is that "harm" to a shop owner is "having to redo work myself" or "fix the kid's screw-ups", not actual damage to YOUR car, which they don't give a fig about.

Tools are incompetence magnifiers. Power tools extremely so...

[KNS]

As far as dealers go - I changed the oil recently on my son's Mazda, its second oil change. The first one had been performed by the dealer. The drain plug required a hex socket to remove but I guess the Mazda tech didn't have one. It was mangled by what appeared to be channel locks or pliers along the outer edges.

[GH85Carrera]

We just ordered a new Macan. In looking around online to see the procedure I noticed the going rate is $400! for a dealer oil change. Our dealer said it was $240.

It looks like I will be doing the oil changes myself. Pelican Parts needs to start a Macan forum and sell Macan parts now.

At least I hope I can get the oil filter, gaskets and such from Pelican.

[asphaltgambler]

The reason is more simple. The rubber gasket/O-ring that seals the filter is exposed to heat and oil which is petroleum based. The seal will swell slightly increasing the torque required to remove regardless of how tight it was originally. Further even pure synthetic oils will eventually have byproducts of combustion, which are petroleum based.

This is of course only relating to canister style filters. I've found that installing the filter by hand ( lubing the seals ) spinning it until resistance is felt, then another 3/4 turn works every time. If its a diesel canister filter, same method but full turn additonal due to vibration, thicker oil viscosity when cold.

[Otter74]

I install filters to finger tight plus half a turn, and I have only ever had to gorilla a filter off when I broke this rule and tightened it something like a full turn for some reason. Only time I've ever had a filter come off was when I was putting a new engine in my old Infiniti G20, and the filter adapter and filter were mismatched - the threading was slightly different after a certain build date and I had adapters and filters from both eras, so everything looked compatible but wasn't, and I put the wrong filter on. Filter started spewing oil immediately on startup, so it wasn't hard to miss and I replaced with the correct filter.

[stevej37]

Originally Posted by Geary

I had a shop change my trans oil once. Never again. They torqued the oil add plug to 100+ lbs, when it called for 15. These days I use teflon tape. Never had a problem. With oil filters, I typically tighten a second time, after a few hours running.

I've never heard of tightening a filter after a few hours? Wouldn't that just cause the seal to have to renew?

[tcar]

Originally Posted by Geary

... These days I use teflon tape...

Teflon tape is not rated for high temps.

[john75]

I'm so glad to hear that other people have under-tightened an oil filter! I did my first oil change this year and followed the instructions which said to hand tighten the oil filter. Apparently I have girlie strength for-arms because I had oil spraying out the sides of the oil filter. Turned off the car, did further turn on the oil filter with a loop wrench (not sure of the name) and it has been good to go.

To those who have done a similar move...how did you clean the oil in the car?

[manbridge 74]

Get a mild degreaser at a FLAPS and let it soak in a bit then rinse with water. Do it over cardboard if you want to throw out the mess.

[Geary]

Originally Posted by tcar

Teflon tape is not rated for high temps.

The quote it taken out of context. I was speaking of transmission oil plugs. Teflon tape does not "deteriorate from heat" when used on trans oil plugs. For an engine drain plug, a crush washer or copper washer is typically used.

[rusnak]

My Chevy 1-ton truck with a 454 motor is very hard on everything. Never had a vehicle that would wear things out like it does, and it's also the only vehicle that will work the oil filter loose if it's not tightened beyond hand tight. I use the oil filter socket on it, as I mentioned, for both installation and removal. I don't go gorilla tight on it, but not baby tight either.

[RANDY P]

3/4 of a turn from barely touching, and that's all.

Same thing with a home water filtration unit. Huge volumes, and you attempt to tighten one with a wrench, you are doomed come next time you have to change. It requires deceptively little torque to seal.

rjp

[speeder]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Gotta tell this story here>
When I owned my shop this happened twice. Time frame early 1970s. Saab 96 V4 comes in smokin' like a sum*****. In both cases the owners had tried to do their own maintenance. I both cases they drained all the oil out of the transmission and added four quarts to the engine. The transmission is in front of the engine in those cars - from underneath it looked like where the engine plug should be - and that was very unusual in those days. Read your owner's manual people.

Not so, the transmission is behind the engine. But from underneath, the trans drain plug is in a location that could be construed as the bottom of the engine if there wasn't an engine with an oil pan and drain plug just in front of it. If the car was on a hoist and someone did what you describe, I just don't know what to say.

I currently own a 1970 Saab 96, it's my 4th one over a period of 40 years.

[jwasbury]

I feel your pain Vash --->

Open letter to the Gorillas who work at the dealership - North American Motoring