A Deadly Conundrum... what would you do ?

[74-911]

If you saw 2 armed vato gang-bangers robbing a jewelry store in a busy mall, would you try to stop them ?? Details sketchy on just what happened but one unarmed man did and he ended up dead, a second man with CCL shot the robber who shot man #1. Robber #2 took off in the mall shooting back at man # 2 and wounded 2 shoppers. Robber #2 caught a bit later after wrecking a stolen car.

San Antonio PD: Escaped suspect in deadly attempted robbery caught in Converse - San Antonio Express-News

I found this especially interesting as years ago I lived just a couple of miles from that mall and frequented it fairly regularly...

[recycled sixtie]

Interesting scenario. If the man with the ccl had not shot at the perps perhaps no shots would have been fired at all then the bad guys would have got away and the shoppers would not have been hurt either.

What would have happened if the ccl guy was an off duty leo? Would he have challenged the perps?

[stomachmonkey]

Poor decision.

You don't start a running gun fight in a shopping mall.

That's irresponsible.

[GH85Carrera]

No, I am untrained and not a cop and I would not intervene in a armed robbery of a store. No way.

[berettafan]

absolutely foolish choice based on the info you gave us.

[Seahawk]

I tried to read the link but it was very poorly written.

Given the circumstance, no, I would not intervene. Not my jewelry. First order of business is to get as far away as possible, call the authorities and protect myself.

I don't carry but if I did the answer is the same.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie

Interesting scenario. If the man with the ccl had not shot at the perps perhaps no shots would have been fired at all then the bad guys would have got away and the shoppers would not have been hurt either.

What would have happened if the ccl guy was an off duty leo? Would he have challenged the perps?

First shot was fired by the robber and it killed the unarmed shopper who tried to stop his get away.
CCL holder then shot and killed that robber
So a man was killed and the shooting started before the CCL holder fired a shot.

Personally, I really do not know what I would do in that situation.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by ficke

First shot was fired by the robber and it killed the unarmed shopper who tried to stop his get away.
CCL holder then shot and killed that robber
So a man was killed and the shooting started before the CCL holder fired a shot.

Personally, I really do not know what I would do in that situation.

Ah well this changes things!

[74-911]

Originally Posted by ficke

First shot was fired by the robber and it killed the unarmed shopper who tried to stop his get away.

CCL holder then shot and killed that robber
So a man was killed and the shooting started before the CCL holder fired a shot.

Personally, I really do not know what I would do in that situation.

I've not seen any info on what the unarmed shopper actually did. First reports said he tried to stop their getaway but his wife seemed to indicate he just stepped in front of her to shield her ?? Based on the picture of the robber, definitely not the type to mess with under any circumstance if he is armed.

[sammyg2]

Some folks need killin'.

If the punk shot someone and I was carrying, I'd return the favor. otherwise nunya.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by 74-911

I've not seen any info on what the unarmed shopper actually did. First reports said he tried to stop their getaway but his wife seemed to indicate he just stepped in front of her to shield her ?? Based on the picture of the robber, definitely not the type to mess with under any circumstance if he is armed.

Well, we do know the unarmed shopper did not fire the first shot, since he was well, unarmed.
We do know the first shot was fired by the robber to stop what ever the unarmed shopper was doing.
Taking a knife to a gun fight is stupid but this shopper did not even have a knife?? So what ever he was doing was beyond stupid to me, and he paid for that bad decision with his life.
So the shooting was started by the robber and that robbers deadly shooting was stopped by the CCL holder. Now maybe that robber would not have shot again, there is no way to know and apparently that CCL holder did not want to take that chance and find out by letting him go after watching the robber shoot and kill someone.

So, to answer "Stomachmonkey" question yes, I do think it was a poor decision and it was irresponsible of the robber to start a running gun fight. But he did pay for his bad decision with his life.
Not a video game, no reset.

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by ficke

Well, we do know the unarmed shopper did not fire the first shot, since he was well, unarmed.
We do know the first shot was fired by the robber to stop what ever the unarmed shopper was doing.
Taking a knife to a gun fight is stupid but this shopper did not even have a knife?? So what ever he was doing was beyond stupid to me, and he paid for that bad decision with his life.
So the shooting was started by the robber and that robbers deadly shooting was stopped by the CCL holder. Now maybe that robber would not have shot again, there is no way to know and apparently that CCL holder did not want to take that chance and find out by letting him go after watching the robber shoot and kill someone.

So, to answer "Stomachmonkey" question yes, I do think it was a poor decision and it was irresponsible of the robber to start a running gun fight. But he did pay for his bad decision with his life.
Not a video game, no reset.

Not arguing your point. The robber that shot the unarmed bystander was shot by the CCL holder. The robber that later shot others was the second robber. The first robber did not die. The second robber has been caught. I have not found any information that the CCL shot at the fleeing robber.

The unarmed victim would have died anyway, given his actions. The unanswerable question is, if the first robber had not been shot, would the second robber have fired as he fled, wounding four other people?

Don't PARF this comment as it's just an observation. The CCL was carrying in violation of the policy of the Mall. There are four wounded people as the result of the fleeing robber's actions. The unanswerable question I posted could be grounds for civil cases against the CCL. Hopefully not, but one never knows.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/01/24/texas-mall-shooting-shopper-couldnt-carry-gun/96982144/

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

No, I am untrained and not a cop and I would not intervene in a armed robbery of a store. No way.

Only if I or my family or someone in my charge were directly threatened.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by ficke

So, to answer "Stomachmonkey" question yes, I do think it was a poor decision and it was irresponsible of the robber to start a running gun fight. But he did pay for his bad decision with his life.
Not a video game, no reset.

If you are going to ask a question it's proper form to provide relevant info in the original question as our answers may be different based on what we know at the time.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

Not arguing your point. The robber that shot the unarmed bystander was shot by the CCL holder. The robber that later shot others was the second robber. The first robber did not die. The second robber has been caught. I have not found any information that the CCL shot at the fleeing robber.

The unarmed victim would have died anyway, given his actions. The unanswerable question is, if the first robber had not been shot, would the second robber have fired as he fled, wounding four other people?

Don't PARF this comment as it's just an observation. The CCL was carrying in violation of the policy of the Mall. There are four wounded people as the result of the fleeing robber's actions. The unanswerable question I posted could be grounds for civil cases against the CCL. Hopefully not, but one never knows.

Texas mall: Shopper who shot suspect not allowed to carry

Carrying a concealed handgun if the Mall is PROPERLY posted, is a misdemeanor "Trespass by License holder".

As far as the shooting is concerned, as long as the CHL did not shoot anyone but a bad guy, he should be clear. Civil lawsuits like that have a VERY tough time in Texas, since they passed legislation killing civil lawsuits IF there are no criminal charges.

[speeder]

Why on earth would an unarmed citizen try to "stop" two vicious, armed robbers during the commission of the robbery?

That's what I don't understand. It's tragic but he made a very unwise decision and paid w his life. The less sensitive here might call it Darwinism. It also seems to have started the whole deadly confrontation.

Even cops would have let them get outside, if they were smart. You never want lead flying in a crowded public place. Let them get outside, then blast them.

[red-beard]

I just checked the Texas3006 database. They do not list Rolling Oaks Mall. Kay Jewelers around the San Antonio area restricts both open and concealed. But there is no listing for the store at the mall.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

Not arguing your point. The robber that shot the unarmed bystander was shot by the CCL holder. The robber that later shot others was the second robber. The first robber did not die. The second robber has been caught. I have not found any information that the CCL shot at the fleeing robber.

The unarmed victim would have died anyway, given his actions. The unanswerable question is, if the first robber had not been shot, would the second robber have fired as he fled, wounding four other people?

Don't PARF this comment as it's just an observation. The CCL was carrying in violation of the policy of the Mall. There are four wounded people as the result of the fleeing robber's actions. The unanswerable question I posted could be grounds for civil cases against the CCL. Hopefully not, but one never knows.

Texas mall: Shopper who shot suspect not allowed to carry

Like I said earlier, we have no idea if the robber who shot and killed the unarmed shopper would have continued killing unarmed shoppers.
He did not die as you correctly pointed out, but he was stopped from shooting any more from the CCL holder, but would he of shot any more people if not shot by the CCL holder? No one knows for sure.
But the known quantity, is he had killed once while fleeing. so he has proving he will kill.
Now as for the second robber shooting, we are only guessing that he did not have the same mind set as the killing robber and only shot out of self defense?
I really doubt that theory and think he would have shot his way out of there regardless of the CCL holder like the first robber was doing.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

If you are going to ask a question it's proper form to provide relevant info in the original question as our answers may be different based on what we know at the time.

It was provided in the original link in the first post.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by ficke

Well, we do know the unarmed shopper did not fire the first shot, since he was well, unarmed.
We do know the first shot was fired by the robber to stop what ever the unarmed shopper was doing.
Taking a knife to a gun fight is stupid but this shopper did not even have a knife?? So what ever he was doing was beyond stupid to me, and he paid for that bad decision with his life.
So the shooting was started by the robber and that robbers deadly shooting was stopped by the CCL holder. Now maybe that robber would not have shot again, there is no way to know and apparently that CCL holder did not want to take that chance and find out by letting him go after watching the robber shoot and kill someone.

So, to answer "Stomachmonkey" question yes, I do think it was a poor decision and it was irresponsible of the robber to start a running gun fight. But he did pay for his bad decision with his life.
Not a video game, no reset.

The story on the website has been updated.

The robber that was running and firing was successful in getting away from the mall. He did hit a few people in the mall. He was captured, not far away, around midnight, after he fled from a car accident.

The robber who was shot was the one who killed the unarmed patron.