USS Fitzgerald collision?? Please explain.

[URY914]

The USS Fitzgerald Is At Fault. This Is Why. – gCaptain

[Nickshu]

Originally Posted by URY914

The USS Fitzgerald Is At Fault. This Is Why. – gCaptain

That was a good read, thanks for posting.

[David]

Interesting legal read:

The Philippine container ship that crashed into a US guided-missile destroyer may be liable for almost $2 billion - Business Insider

[JJ 911SC]

Bonne Chance with that.

[Alpha]

Bull**** article, there is no way in hell the container ship gets the blame for that one.

[fireant911]

New article from yesterday addressing the fact that the Fitzgerald CO has been relieved of his command - medical reasons.

Injured Fitzgerald Commander Is Relieved | Military.com

[Tobra]

Medical reasons; needs an ass transplant because his OEM one has been chewed completely off.

[tcar]

Originally Posted by fireant911

New article from yesterday addressing the fact that the Fitzgerald CO has been relieved of his command - medical reasons.

Temporarily... it says. Until he recovers.

[JJ 911SC]

Initial investigation blames Navy for USS Fitzgerald collision - CNNPolitics.com

[Alpha]

Not surprising at all.. About time us media realized it.

[rumlyne]

In the open ocean it is not possible to get hit on the starboard side
and it not be your fault. The most basic rule. Starboard boat has rights !
Game over.

[rumlyne]

How could it happen?
I was standing QMOW watch on a 205' Coast Guard ship in the 70's.
Broad daylight, flat ocean . I had 2 lookouts on flying bridge. OD on the
bridge. My normal routine was scan with binocs, check radar, step in
chart room check position, rinse and repeat.
stepped out on bridgewing looked aft and less than 1/2 mile
behind us a ship was crossing our wake!!! Nobody saw it.
EVERYBODY missed it!! DO DO happens

[rumlyne]

THIS IS HOW IT HAPPENS
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/08/17/commander-stricken-destroyer-fitzgerald-relieved-after-navy-report-cites-failures/577805001/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=usatoday-newstopstories#

[fireant911]

No big surprise here... USS Fitzgerald's leadership to be removed from their duties over June collision - CNNPolitics

[rumlyne]

You have to respect how the military handles these kind of issues.
Unlike our elected leaders who would by reflex first lie, then blame
someone else then spin to deflect blame.

I suspect the two on the bridge, the QMOW and the OD, could face
the UCMJ version of manslaughter charges. The Capt. will be guilty
of not properly training his bridge crew.

Their will be medals for the heroic sailors who fought to save their ship
and the lives of their shipmates after being let down by the bridge crew.

I'd be interested in Seahawks opinion on this as a retired Naval officer.
As a chopper pilot, he more than most understands how confusing it
can be with other ships about and all you see is lights. They were in
one of the busier seaways in the world.

If you go back and reread this thread you will notice a lot of instant bias
that the other guy had to somehow be at fault. when all you had to do
was look at where our ship was struck to know who was at fault.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by rumlyne

I'd be interested in Seahawks opinion on this as a retired Naval officer.
As a chopper pilot, he more than most understands how confusing it
can be with other ships about and all you see is lights. They were in
one of the busier seaways in the world.

I agree with everything you have written.

I did all my cruises and flew off of Frigates and Destroyers and was the Airboss on AGF-3, The USS La Salle, during the first PG War.

I stood bridge watches and qualified as OOD Underway...something I am oddly proud of: I was a part time "ship driver" responsible for the safe operations of the ship while underway!

Here is how it works on the ships I served on:

The CO will write and brief his "night orders" (NO) to the bridge watch team before he goes to his or her at sea cabin (which is usually steps off the bridge itself) to get some sleep. The Combat Information Center (CIC) Tactical Action Officer will generally attend the night orders discussion as well.

Night orders generally cover known threats and responses, navigation requirements (whether we are Mod Locked - staying a a specific part of the ocean - or where we need to be along our route), and, most importantly, when and under what specific circumstances wake the CO and either inform him or her of the situation or call the CO directly to the bridge.

The most important of these written orders are what are known as "Closet Point of Approach" (CPA) of other vessels in the area to your ship. The CPA is expressed in yards. The NO's also specify the leeway the OOD has to maneuver the ship in order avoid close CPA's. My CO's generally gave me a 5 thousand yard CPA and unrestricted maneuvering DEPENDING on where we were - open ocean, mod-locked or transiting crowded shipping lanes, etc.

Here is the general composite of bridge and CIC watch section:

Bridge:

OOD - a Warrant Officer (WO) or a Commissioned Officer
JOOD - on the ships I served on usually a senior enlisted, WO or Officer
Navigator - Senior enlist (Quarter Master) or officer depending on the at sea conditions (General Quarters, flight quarters, sea and anchor detail, etc.)
Helmsman/Lee Helmsman - Enlisted
Board plotter - Don't know if they still have these. More on them in a second.

Those are just the qualified positions. There is always a JOOD in training, etc. getting the requisite experience to qualify for the next higher watch standing position.

CIC:

TAO - Officer
ATAO - Senior Enlisted
Radar operators - Senior and junior enlisted often a bunch of them
Various other CIC watch standers - Acoustic operators, electronic warfare folks, etc.

So, there are at least 7 folks involved at any one time responsible for the safe transit of a USN vessel. Those numbers do not include fore and aft lookouts in radio comms with the bridge and others. A bunch of folks.

Equipment. The bridge has a number of radar repeaters displaying active ships radar plots. The way I ran my watch section is that the JOOD and Nav would check the radar plot continuously and work with CIC to identify other ship and plot their CPA.
Each target is assigned a "skunk" identification: Skunck A, Skunk B, etc. The status of each skunk (remember, I haven't been an OOD for 26 years - the La Salle was a steam ship!) was written an a clear board by the board plotter.

I have been told there is new EO/IR equipment being installed to help.

One last thing: USN ships operate in various Electronic Emissions Control (EMCOM) regimes, which mean we often operate underway without radar.

As was written before by rumlyne I also had a habit of going from bridge wing to bridge wing, inside to the scope heads, check board status, rinse and repeat.

Sorry for the long post, but that is how it all worked when I was an OOD.

Compare that with merchant ships: They are often on auto pilot, sailing exact routes. I have personally radioed merchants that did not respond for five minutes.

So, the USS Fitz crew knows all this, is in a busy part of the ocean and the watch standing crew clearly lost situational awareness. Things can go from all buttoned up to chaos on the bridge in minutes. In those waters I would have been resonating like a tuning fork as the OOD.

Why the leadership of the ship, CO/XO and Master Chief, are all asleep in those waters is interesting to me.

What where the NO's, what was the CPA, EMCOM status, etc.? Why wasn't the CO called to the bridge?

The Navy is at fault. There may be more experienced mariners here that disagree, but that is how I see it.

BTW, my prayers for all the sailors, many who performed heroically in the finest tradition of Naval Service:

The completed investigation will likely find evidence of extraordinary heroism as well as error: Multiple outlets report that one of the sailors who perished in the collision, Fire Controlman First Class Gary Rehm Jr., was trapped below decks when bulkheads were closed to save the ship after having dived to save fellow sailors. Rehm may have saved up to 20 of his fellow crew by his actions, according to reports unconfirmed by the Navy

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/07/21/investigation-faults-navy-fitzgerald-collision-report.html

Fair winds, Shipmates.

[GH85Carrera]

Thanks Paul, and thank you for your service to the county.

If the investigation does show Mr. Rehem died while saving his crew-mates he should receive a Medal of honor. That is the definition of a hero, pure and simple.

[carreradpt]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

If the investigation does show Mr. Rehem died while saving his crew-mates he should receive a Medal of honor. That is the definition of a hero, pure and simple.

Unfortunately, not the appropriate award for his actions in this particular situation. But a hero nonetheless.

[GH85Carrera]

Why, because it was not combat related? I guess that makes sense.

[tcar]

Originally Posted by carreradpt

Unfortunately, not the appropriate award for his actions in this particular situation. But a hero nonetheless.

Actually, it looks like there are almost 200 Naval MOH awards in peacetime.

Even things like rescuing victims from boiler explosions, etc.

And, by act of congress, they can be awarded for other things... Lindbergh got one...