State Of Vintage Racing?

[jyl]

Herroberst and I went to the vintage races at PIR (Portland International Raceway). Nice event, low key. Really quite low key.

So it made me wonder. How is the vintage racing scene doing? A lot of people have made a lot of money in the past decade and vintage car prices are at records.

But are the people buying vintage racers now participating in vintage racing?

[ted]

Good question.
I'm looking forward to spectating the Monterey Pre-Reunion next month.
Rolex Monterey Motorsports Reunion - Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca

Vintage racing is fun and different.
For the hardcore SCCA racer its a little soft.
For the rest of us old guys with old fast cars its a fun challenge and expensive.

SVRA took over and unfortunately had to cancel our money losing Coronado event after a 19 year run.

Race cars for the most part are a hard sell.
Mine is in the garage missing Reunion this year.
If they run a vintage Trans Am/GTO race at Long Beach I'd bring my car (again).
https://youtu.be/UR04l6sAj64

[jhynesrockmtn]

I just sold my Formula Vee and am trying to decide next steps. I have a 914 a buddy developed to race but it needs additional $'s put into motor and suspension. He sadly passed in 2014. When I looked at what I'd spent on just building the Vee into a competitive car I'm not sure I can do that again and retire when I want to. I've raced with SOVREN which is a PNW based club that races near Seattle/Portland/Spokane since 2008. The Portland event is a points race for us even though it is an SVRA race. Our car counts at races have been down since the depression and have further suffered I think with the rise in vintage car prices. I know folks who've quit racing their 356 and 911 cars. Some have moved to cheaper cars like V's or vintage British cars but others have just quit racing. On the other end, the bigger money events like Monterey have pulled cars owned by folks who can afford those events away from our local vintage events. Our club is therefore suffering where other forms of vintage racing might be growing.

[herr_oberst]

It was definitively smaller in all aspects. The pits were empty compared to years past, even the Formula Mazda race just had a few cars. Car corrals were empty.

However, we got to give the F Type Jag a lap around an autocross course, and that was a hoot!

(And the F1 Benneton was pretty spectacular.)

[jhynesrockmtn]

It was definitively smaller in all aspects. The pits were empty compared to years past, even the Formula Mazda race just had a few cars. Car corrals were empty.

That will likely kill this event. SVRA took this over in 2015 from HSRA I think. They have warned our club that unless the car counts increase, they will quit coming to Portland. I've never gone as HSRA was notorious for not welcoming FV and therefore most of us avoided it. We were typically gridded with much faster open wheel cars creating a dangerous situation. As far as I know, SVRA has a similar attitude toward FV. What ends up happening is the bigger money guys kind of squeeze out the guy trying to race on a tighter budget. I have a friend who is an "arrive and drive" guy now who doesn't seem to understand why some of us have either quit or do far fewer events than we used to.

Our Spokane event saw smaller car counts and tragically a serious accident that killed the driver. I'm not sure it will survive that combination of factors.

Our club has bumped up the age of cars allowed from 1970 to 1985 in the last few years to encourage more participation. I don't think it is working. Younger folks don't care about cars and racing the way us old folks did when we were younger.

[Flieger]

(young guy here)

I think there are plenty of young people who like cars. Problem is racing takes time and money and particularly money is in short supply until you get to be an old guy. Track days seem to be doing well and are a bit easier to get into with your E30 BMW or whatever your daily driver is. Not many people are lucky like me to have access to a 911.

I went to see the historic Can-Am race at the LBGP this year and the crowd definitely loved the cars. I think more than the headline IMSA race.

[wdfifteen]

The vintage Can-Am at Elkhart last year seemed well attended. Way off topic, but mrs WD and I went to a local paved oval track last night. Sportsman class was populated with non-descript cars with aerodynamic plastic front and rear body work. You couldn't tell one make from another. But one guy showed up with a 65 Falcon with a stock body right down to the bumpers. He was by FAR the crowd favorite and people went nuts when he won the class. So vintage cars are popular with spectators.

[pwd72s]

Used to love the PIR historics. But quit 'em after the year they moved marque parking to the infield. Was really hot, Cindy began fading fast, and we couldn't leave. MSers do poorly in heat...it was a miserable 911S 95 miles run back home in a no air conditioning 911S. If we'd known ahead of time of the marque parking move, we'd have stayed home. Previous to that year, it was no problem leaving early if we needed to.

[John Rogers]

Here are my thoughts about west coast vintage racing which is different than the east coast variety mainly because our tracks are so far apart it is a big pain to get to the venues. On the west coast, CA, AZ and NM mostly we have our time off in the summer because it is so dammed hot you can't do it. On the east coast it's not quite as bad.

Other reasons are the fact that in many racing organizations the car has to be "famous" or at least a well known SCCA car from back in the day. Groups like IMSA, PCA and others don't seem to count although no it has changed and cars are allowed in. As an example when I wanted to enter my 1973 914-4 in a VARA event they said no thanks. I had sent copies of the log book and all the results from the fact the little bugger had won the V5 class championship every year since 1974 (this was in 1998 or so). Another example is the 914-4 #22 that Wayne Baker ran in IMSA and after a lot of phone calls and other stuff Ron was able to run in class "X"! I heard about a group named HSR-West and Ed Swart said sure come on in as we are just starting up. That ended up being a blast as we raced all different makes and years since the cars were classed by make/year AND the qualifying time. They had MOTOL as a sponsor and I won class 2L-J for several years and actually got some $$$$$ and then the $50K 914's and such showed up and the fun sort of disappeared. My arthritis took care of the rest so I sold the car and it went to Puerto Rico.

[Ferraripete]

my quick thoughts on the state of vintage racing.

steve earl is gone essentially. he may have been a prick but the standards he set are missed by me.

the standards for log book and provenance has allowed non-real vintage racers in and the quality of the fields has suffered.

the rules being relaxed and the classes being mucked up has kept the serious vintage cars from showing up.

racing has gotten a bit aggressive thus the risk of an e-production mgb colliding with a d type jag has made it a bad value prop for the owner of the D.

many of the legendary guest drivers have been passing away so the excitement of seeing a driver reunited with his old steed is not as prevalent.

that said, I am glad there is a place for drivers and car lovers alike to get together and keep the sport in our hearts and minds.

oh last comment: the advent of the "vintage" nascar class is a joke and a snooze fest for classical vintage race car lovers.

[Ferraripete]

I will add however that the good tracks still get some good participation. Elkhart, Road A, the Glen and Laguna.

[jwasbury]

Perhaps a different thing than what you guys are speaking if, but PCA club racing has recently introduced a new "vintage" class at select events and its gaining in popularity. Very simple classing rules: air cooled only, 1983 and older, then split by over/under 2.4 liters. All safety gear needs to be up to snuff, otherwise run what ya brung.

[AFC-911]

HSR is doing fantastic.

Just go to the 24 Hour Classic of Daytona or the Classic 12 Hours of Sebring and look at the cars that are running.

We're seeing LMP1 Audis, Group C Porsches, Can Am...It's fantastic for a gearhead.

[URY914]

Originally Posted by AFC-911

HSR is doing fantastic.

Just go to the 24 Hour Classic of Daytona or the Classic 12 Hours of Sebring and look at the cars that are running.

We're seeing LMP1 Audis, Group C Porsches, Can Am...It's fantastic for a gearhead.

I agree. The Daytona Classic 24 is being developed into the US version of Classic LeMans.

[Sebscst]

Gt1's will be running next year.

[flipper35]

Dad, the kids and I went to the Hawk this year and have been to the fall vintage races at Road America in the past. My daughter has been going since she was around 5. There is no pressure for either kid, I just ask if they want to go and they always do. They love looking at the cars in the pits.

The guys in the pits are very accommodating.


Even when she refuses to sit in a car because it is a Ferrari (the arch-nemesis of the Cobra):


This was the boy's first time near a real race car.

[ckelly78z]

I just went to the SVRA Mid-Ohio vintage races last month. The attendance was way down from previous years, but The cars on the track didn't disappoint. There were probably only about 50 cars in the corral show pen. I remember about 10 years going to the same event with my 240Z, and barely having room in the infeild for all the show cars....sad.

[ted]

My race car heat soaked and hot inside from a race didn't bother this little visitor.
Great kid sat in the car for near a half hour and didn't touch anything but the wheel.
I asked him what he was doing?
He said "I'm waiting for the green light".
1988 CHEVROLET Camaro Historic IMSA GTO/Trans Am Race Car

[Ferraripete]

ted, I enjoyed seeing your car at Coronado in the past. curious if it is an ex gto, trans am or gt1 car...or all of the above? what is the history?

[tevake]

It's not just the kids that get a thrill out of getting to sit in a real race car.



This is at PIR a couple of years ago. It's so friendly in the paddock at the vintage events, almost more fun than the races for me.

Cheers Richard