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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 165
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What to do???
I bought a car recently for my 16 year old son. It was from this forum, and the seller seemed quite respectable (I researched his online persona, he does interesting and respectable work, etc.) I had the PPI done at a shop of his suggestion, and I researched that the shop is actually an avid Porsche community enthusiast, and really well regarded. The PPI came back very positive, so I bought the car.
I made it clear to the PPI shop that I had no additional budget to work on the car, and this was not a project car. It was a complete car purchase for my 16 year old son and we wanted dependability, reliability, and safety as top concerns. It arrived yesterday (shipped, delivered to my mechanic's shop) and the mechanic did a review of the car and it's like a different car was delivered (not the case, the VIN matches). There are countless problems... the front clip has been welded on, ABS doesn't work, major oil leaks, major issues in the interior and trunk, rust, no fender lining or any underbody pieces, ill fitting rubber, many parts are just thrown together, etc. The car doesn't match the PPI. I offered to ship it back to the seller immediately and pay shipping both ways, and he said its sold and now my problem. I spoke with the shop that did the PPI and the owner was also shocked because he knew a lot about the car and thought it had all been communicated to me. I believe its possible the mechanic was involved in helping the seller sell the car, and I mentioned this to the shop owner and he is looking into it. None of the issues are on the PPI, in fact the PPI is all green except for license plate lights missing, windshield wiper fluid not operating, and a few extras. What should I do? File suit against the seller? Work out something with the PPI shop? I don't want the car. The PPI shop owner is trying to connect with the seller to convince him to take the car back with my terms (I pay shipping both ways) but not sure if the seller will respect that offer as he is clearly trying to wash his hands of it. I don't want to yet post the seller and the shop, as I am hopeful this will work out. If you saw the ad (and how its represented so positively) you would be shocked about the actual car being delivered. Kind of bummed, Kris Last edited by verticalflight; 09-28-2017 at 12:56 PM.. |
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09-28-2017, 12:53 PM
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Eng-o-neer
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,107
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That is tough.
It seems like the first step is to see where the disjoint actually occurred. The name of the actual person that did the PPI, and the person who gave you the results...It all sounds quite suspect, but don't attribute to malice that which could be explained by incompetence... |
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09-28-2017, 01:10 PM
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Registered
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Kansas
Posts: 1,254
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I would suggest you start taking pictures of all the issues for documentation... especially those that don't match the PPI.
I'd also suggest you take the car to a dealer of the same manufacturer (I have no idea what kind of car you are talking about...) and have them do another PPI. At that point you'll have documentation that doesn't match documentation from them. The conflicting documentation can be valid as evidence in court. Also, depending on what state... it is against the law... look up Fraudulent Misrepresentation.
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1987 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe |
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09-28-2017, 01:12 PM
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 165
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The seller lives in both Indiana and South Carolina and the PPI shop is in South Carolina.
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09-28-2017, 01:15 PM
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Registered
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Posts: 3,963
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It sounds like the person who did the PPI was working in collusion with the seller if they "missed" all the things wrong with the car.
As the seller has already told you to go pound sand it's time to see a lawyer and see what your legal recourse is in getting your money back. As the business that did the PPI misrepresented the car they may be your best bet in any chance of recovery.
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Bunch of old cars 
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09-28-2017, 01:59 PM
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The Unsettler
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lantanna TX
Posts: 23,885
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Oh Boy.
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"I want my two dollars" "Goodbye and thanks for the fish" "Proud Member and Supporter of the YWL" "Brandon Won" |
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09-28-2017, 02:28 PM
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Registered
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North of You
Posts: 9,160
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The PPI guy probably has liability that is limited to what you paid him, check your work order/contract.
The seller will say 'the buyer had a PPI done, not my problem' (and I would agree). Also, you say the PPI shop was told you wanted a driver, not a project. Was the seller told the same thing? If not, I'm not sure what facts you can rely on to blame the seller for any of this. I think a reasonable solution is to ask the seller for a refund, and you have to eat the other costs. But if he declines, you don't have many viable options. Flip it and take your loss.
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"A machine you build yourself is a vote for a different way of life. There are things you have to earn with your hands." |
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09-28-2017, 02:36 PM
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Unregistered
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: a wretched hive of scum and villainy
Posts: 55,652
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You are more calm and patient than I would be in that case.
I don't know exactly how much I would over-react, but there would most definitely be over-reaction taking place. I'D BE pissed! |
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09-28-2017, 02:38 PM
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Did you get the memo?
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wichita, KS
Posts: 32,353
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Capture now everything you can from the seller. Emails, photos, the advertisement before he can erase it, etc, you will have to show that he fraudulently misrepresented the car to you. If for example he said the tires are new and they are in fact totally worn out, that would be fraudulently misrepresenting the car. Most states consider used cars to be sold "as is" with an exception if the seller knowingly and fraudulently misrepresented the condition. You'll need that documentation for when the lawyer gets involved, because it sounds like it is headed that way. I'm no lawyer but used to have a dealer's license, fortunately I never had this issue because I was honest in my dealings. I'm not sure how much exposure the PPI shop has, but I would think they would have some culpability.
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‘07 Mazda RX8-8 Past: 911T, 911SC, Carrera, 951s, 955, 996s, 987s, 986s, 997s, BMW 5x, C36, C63, XJR, S8, Maserati Coupe, GT500, etc |
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09-28-2017, 02:46 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 30,438
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Seller sounds like a sleaze, but you likely have little recourse if he doesn't agree to take it back.....SOME people
 . What type of car, and approx how much did you spend? Sometimes ya just gotta move on...Oh yeah....if he doesn't "make it right".... post your story far and wide and name names Good luck! |
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09-28-2017, 02:55 PM
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Registered
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How does a front clip get welded on to another car without changing VIN numbers?
Shenanigans I would approach seller with all the documented info, and if full restitution is not achieved, Then Lawyer up and get DMV involved. I would like to hear Sellers side as well.
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1995 FZJ80, 1988 Toyota Pickup 4x4 |
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09-28-2017, 02:56 PM
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Registered
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Mid-life crisis, could be anywhere
Posts: 10,382
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What is the car model, mileage and the price you paid?
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'95 993 C4 Cabriolet Bunch of motorcycles |
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09-28-2017, 02:58 PM
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Registered
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 11,758
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Not as uncommon as you might think here. I won't buy a car without looking at it firsthand anymore.
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09-28-2017, 03:05 PM
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Still Doin Time
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Nokesville, Va.
Posts: 8,225
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^^^^^ This^^^^^^ I've traveled 3 states away to buy a $5K car.
Why? - because I've been burned too.
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'15 Dodge - 'Dango R/T Hauls groceries and Kinda Hauls *ss '07 Jeep SRT-8 - Hauls groceries and Hauls *ss Sold '85 Guards Red Targa - Almost finished after 17 years '95 Road King w/117ci - No time to ride, see above '77 Sportster Pro-Street Drag Bike w/93ci - Sold |
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09-28-2017, 03:53 PM
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Eng-o-neer
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,107
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I dunno, yo. You pay a shop to do a couple hundred bucks to do a PPI and they don't catch huge issues? The purpose of a PPI is almost entirely to save a long trip, and in the cases of these cars, check for broken studs. We're all capable of checking for rust and judging how the car drives in person.
Though I did say don't jump to nefarious conclusions, I think the buyer did fine due diligence, and it sure seems like there was intentional deception by more than one actor. Crazy. If I was the owner of that shop I would be highly motivated to get to the bottom of things. Or, ya know...it's all a lie... |
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09-28-2017, 04:12 PM
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Registered
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 2,553
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Im really sorry this happened to you...
There's always two perspectives to every story. Not saying buyer is wrong, but I sense expectations were wholly unrealistic... No one buys a 30 year old car, and expects it to be a reliable daily driver on no budget... That's just not what these cars are... Post some pics on here... The front clip was replaced? Or some part was welded? I almost sold my 930 when the motor started acting up. Truth be told, the car is in really good shape and I did tons of work on it. I didn't point out any of the good stuff when attempting to sell, pointed out all the bad. And I made it painfully obvious that under no circumstance would I take the car back, even if demons flew out of the exhaust. Pretty much turned buyers off, I suspect, and got low offers. I'm ok with that. But I did that intentionally. To avoid exactly this situation. You buy a car unseen? That's problem lays at the buyers feet... you are taking a gamble. The risk of mismatched expectations is huge. Talking about lawsuits is silly nonproductive talk, unfortunately. I have tons of judgements in my line of business, good luck collecting. Take a deep breath, learn, fix the car, and make it a life lesson... So sorry... Now, if there were true fraud on the part of the shop... you may have some recourse... Last edited by bpu699; 09-28-2017 at 05:11 PM.. |
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09-28-2017, 05:02 PM
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D idn't E arn I t
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Post some pics of the car....
rjp
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AOC/Hogg 2028 |
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09-28-2017, 05:17 PM
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G'day!
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Old dog....new tricks..... |
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09-28-2017, 05:29 PM
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 165
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I will post the original ad, the pictures of the car, and the PPI report tomorrow. Will also include all names/details. Hoping to see if this can be resolved first.
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09-28-2017, 05:29 PM
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Registered
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 2,553
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You aren't talking about the 944 or 914 that were recently listed from South Carolina?
If this is a $50,000 car I would have different expectations than for a sub $10000 car... Curious... Last edited by bpu699; 09-29-2017 at 09:25 AM.. |
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09-28-2017, 05:41 PM
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Boxer engine, 6 gears, big wing: it's a GT3!
1981 ?! A Red one... 3.0
Balla special
P car
OK, a girl that identifies as a car. Good enough?
Porsche Z06
P truck orsche
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