OT - What do you think and feel about this,...

[944S Boyeee]

Who "all agrees Saddam is a bad man"???

I don't - he has never done anything to me. As I recall from watching the news (and I paid attention), he hasn't done anything to anyone else either.

I'd take Saddam over Bush (Sr. or Jr.) any day of the week. Just cause someone is "your leader" doesn't always make them a saint.

Personally, I wish they all would go away!!

944S Boyeee

[hoff944]

Saddam over Bush? Right....I hope that my sarcasm dectector isn't working. Even though bush has expanded the federal government, which I'm not in favor of, at least he doesn't execute and torture anyone who speaks out against him.

[CJFusco]

I think 944Boyee is actually Oliver Stone

SoCal - The Associated Press spells Iraq with a 'K'? Wow, they're really taking a lot of liberties. "the targeting coordinates for Saddam's first missile attack has been determined to be New Jersey. "No great loss" President Bush said when asked about this discovery." Jeez, and this is the guy you're supporting? No big loss? I'm no fan of New Jersey, but come on... unless that whole thing was a joke on your part. Which I think it was. If that's the case, ignore this

Hawktel - I am not a Gore supporter, but still think that the past election was a travesty. I accept that Bush won based on our current system, but I think that the system is flawed.

And I do think that Saddam is a pretty bad man, for the record. Does that mean we should be going to war with him? Not necessarily.

[Chris_924s]

War is never good- only a last possible resort. I'm a little touchy about this as My oldest son is currently on a 20 hour flight from Ft. Jackson SC to Seoul Korea. He left at 10 am and he's a little nervous about being there as well I am about him going.

[overkill]

Originally posted by SoCal Driver
"Associated Press:

Irak documents captured yesterday have been decoded and the targeting coordinates for Saddam's first missile attack has been determined to be New Jersey. "No great loss" President Bush said when asked about this discovery."

Don't worry Overkill the missiles can't go any further than Bahrain, the other end of the Persian gulf. Would be a miracle if they even hit Bahrain considering their lack of accuracy. But when filled with all of the bio's or chem's that Saddam says he doesn't have (but has directed his army to use), their accuracy is close enough.

Still without the help of all of the cowards, domestic and offshore, the US is going in. Personally anyone that goes beyond a peaceful demonstration should be locked up on supporting the enemy charges.

And I don't give a flying crap that anyone "feels" this is not the best thing to do.

** Edited for content -Z-man. **

PLONK!

Where did you hear or see this? I can't believe that bush would say someting like that, that NJ is no great loss! I think NJ is one of the most overly populated states! You know, I am trying to mentally prepare myself for this the best that I can. I am some what ok now but if anything really happened here, I don't really know what or how I would feel. I just hopes this ends soon. I can't handle the idea of people trying to kill people.

[944S Boyeee]

I think the New Jersey comment was a joke.

Overkill is from New Jersey - Overkill is worried - thus the joke.

Hoff944 - how do you know Saddam exectuted and tortured his own people? Let me guess - from some American TV station or an American newspaper? I know for a fact that you can't say you know this information first hand.

.....and I wasn't being sarcastic about taking Saddam over Bush. I'd rather have an evil guy over a sneaky evil guy - plus I admire someone who actually runs his own country (even if it is in a bad way), as opposed to Bush. We all know Bush is the puppet. Heck, the VP is the one really running the show (evil bastard)......but even he is a puppet for the real leaders of the world.

Wake up America!!! You're all being played like a cheap Banjo!!

944S Boyeee (...not Oliver Stone.....trust me!!)

[Mark_944S2]

Originally posted by SoCal Driver
"Associated Press:

Irak documents captured yesterday have been decoded and the targeting coordinates for Saddam's first missile attack has been determined to be New Jersey. "No great loss" President Bush said when asked about this discovery."

Don't worry Overkill the missiles can't go any further than Bahrain, the other end of the Persian gulf. Would be a miracle if they even hit Bahrain considering their lack of accuracy. But when filled with all of the bio's or chem's that Saddam says he doesn't have (but has directed his army to use), their accuracy is close enough.

Still without the help of all of the cowards, domestic and offshore, the US is going in. Personally anyone that goes beyond a peaceful demonstration should be locked up on supporting the enemy charges.

And I don't give a flying crap that anyone "feels" this is not the best thing to do.

** Edited for content -Z-man. **

PLONK!

Reported this post to a moderator for abusive language.

Mark

[carolinus]

the theme from Deliverance.

[SoCal Driver]

** Post deleted: it offered no contribution to the discussion at hand ** -Z-man.

Guess I'm supposed to say nice warm and fuzzy things about all you liberal socialist wankers -- NOT!

Most of you are blinded by years of liberally slanted public schooling. Yes it was my hippy generation that has taught you these falsehoods. I didn't buy it then and I sure as heck don't buy it now.

Most of you have lived a very good life on the moldering remains of your grandfathers still laying in foreign soil. You have no idea of the sacrifices necessary to maintain your warm and fuzzy life style. Your liberal blindness is your short coming.

You are just a small part of a world that still uses aggression and dominance to survive. If you don't have the guts you don't keep what you have at the most.

Live Free or Die

I'm out of here. Fix your own damn cars.

[CJFusco]

I'm just surprised we haven't been relocated to that dungeon that is 'Off-Topic Posts'

[Hawktel]

The Human Rights watch says he is a torturer, and murderer.

Their contact information:

http://www.hrw.org

Rue Van Campenhout 15,
1000 Brussels, Belgium
Tel: 32 (2) 732-2009
Fax: 32 (2) 732-0471
hrwatcheu@skynet.be


I'm sure they have US based offices also. Making them suspect Boyee though.

But that doesn't matter. If you think he's a good you will support Canada taking him in if he decides to abdicate power. (and I hope he does)

Maybe he can drive a Porsche when he's up there.

Ed Hachtel

[ae1969]

It has not been moved to OT...cause this board is no longer being moderated (aka missing Lordgrommit).... just hope Z-man doesnt read this....

But seriously everybody relax. In the end we all want the same. Keep the personal comments in check if possible. SoCal I know you get emotional about topics you take close to heart but dont take your frustrations out on other members. They are not the enemy.

In the end ....we will never agree with each other. Its nice to see the comments.....it really lets me get to know the members on the board..... so keep it going........

I am being entertained.

[carolinus]

That was the mandatory "Yurp" sound that every post on politics and war must contain.

Okay, I made the "Yurp" sound. My job is done. But where are overkill and todwic with all of the beer? Come on guys! Get with the act!

[hoff944]

944SBoyee.. Defectors from Saddam's regime and citizens have all given accounts of people being killed and tortured for speaking out against him. I think everyone here has pretty much discounted your previous comments anyway.

[CJFusco]

i think what 944Boyee is trying to say is that none of us knows nothing for sure unless we have seen it in person... which is true, in a way. I suppose. But then again, how do we know that Dr. Porsche actually designed the VW, let alone the first 356? Did you see it happen? How do we know that George W. Bush is a real person and not a hologram like that crappy Al Pacino movie about the fake actress? How do we know that there is even a country called Iraq? Have any of us seen it in person?

I don't know why, but Boyee is attempting to transfer this discussion from one of politics to one of metaphysical philosophy, thus rendering it impotent and meaningless.

Pointless? Yes. But I like it

[lambic2000]

Originally posted by CJFusco
How do we know that there is even a country called Iraq? Have any of us seen it in person?

I have. Operation Vigilant Warrior, Intrinsic Action, Kuwait Area of Operations, October of 1994 - United States Army Military Policeman.

I have seen the destruction of Saddam up close and personal as many have. To let a leader of such moral decay to stay in power, thus condoning his actions, is tantamount to a failure in humanity. We must all watch out for each other regardless of race, creed, color or religion.

Stephen

[goingboeing737]

Just to add my 0.02. My stepdaughter is in Kuwait in the Marines. My fear is an attack on our troops by Sadam while we mess around with all of this UN resolution stuff. An attack like this would cripple any type of action we might haved planned on taking. Our troops are sitting ducks right now!!! Powell said it best at the UN last week "the inspectors are just that, inspectors, not detectives" This stuff is supposed to be laid out for them to see, not by them going door to door.

Please remember 9/11/01 The world has changed, I was always a "live and let live" kinda guy, but that changed on that Sept morning. I work/fly for an airline, and every day I am reminded of what was brought to our country by people who dislike us. I am all for racial profiling, wire tapping, electronic surveilance etc. to weed out and stop these people. If you are not doing anything wrong or illegal, you should be for these measures too. Too many people have too many "rights" and "special dispensation". This courtesy of people like the ACLU.

I think the whole middle east is out to get us, and we can not sit back and wait for it to happen. They brought this to our shores, and we must fight back.

If you do not like what America is doing or what it stands for LEAVE. Email me and I'll get you the airline ticket for free!!!

3000 PEOPLE DIED IN NYC,,,,,FOR WHAT??????GOING TO WORK ONE MORNING.......

[AFJuvat]

Originally posted by lambic2000
I have. Operation Vigilant Warrior, Intrinsic Action, Kuwait Area of Operations, October of 1994 - United States Army Military Policeman.

I have seen the destruction of Saddam up close and personal as many have. To let a leader of such moral decay to stay in power, thus condoning his actions, is tantamount to a failure in humanity. We must all watch out for each other regardless of race, creed, color or religion.

Stephen

USAF 1990 - 2002, Intelligence Operations, Interrogator/Linguist Debriefer, Flight Crew, Airborne, X20170/99606 - X1N071/8D000

Combat tours:

Operation Deseret Shield - 1990
Operation Desert Storm = 1991
Operation Southern Watch - 1992
Operation Restore Hope (Somalia) - 1993
Operation Vigilant Warrior - 1994
Operation Desert Strike - 1995
Operation Southern Watch - Until June 25, 1996, Khobar Towers Dahran Saudia Arabia, PH awarded.
Operation Joint Endevour - 1998
Operation Enduring Freedom 2001 - 2002

Yeah, it exists, been there, done that, got the T-shirt. On the other hand, when people get extremely annoying here at work, I always tell myself I've been shot at by a better class of people.

Will keep my thoughts about current events pretty much to myself. Sadam is evil, no doubt about that. War is the foreign policy of last resort. War is unfortunately a necessary evil, but I wish the current regime here would do a little more to convince me that we MUST attack NOW. Personally I think we have bigger fish to fry here at home first.

Audentes Fortuna Juvat! (Fortune Favors the Bold)

AFJuvat

[jriley]

Originally posted by Roger Hall
Live free or die. isn't that Delawars state moto?

I believe that's New Hampshire's motto. Ours is "Don't Surrender All of Your Constitutional Rights to the Federal Government". Actually, it's "The First State". Representatives from DE were the first to ratify the Constitution. The Constitution starts like this:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Originally posted by goingboeing737
I am all for racial profiling, wire tapping, electronic surveilance etc. to weed out and stop these people. If you are not doing anything wrong or illegal, you should be for these measures too. Too many people have too many "rights" and "special dispensation". This courtesy of people like the ACLU.

If I'm not mistaken, the "L" in "ACLU" stands for liberty. Maybe no one told them we no longer wish to secure those particular blessings?

The problem that I have with this attitude is that it gives the federal government far too much power than it was ever intended to have by the founders of the country. Sure, they may be using it to protect us as you say, but who's watching them to make sure they aren't abusing it? How do you know they aren't using 9/11 as an excuse to watch us more closely and exercise more control over us? Do you get your rights back after the War on Terrorism? Or do they just want to scare the crap out of you so that you'll keep quiet and do what they say? Once American citizens can no longer question their own government, is it still America?

Originally posted by Abraham Lincoln
...from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion--that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation under God shall have a new birth of freedom, and that
government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.

These words sound to me as apt now, after 9/11, as they did to those who heard them when they were first spoken. Sadly, it seems that they have been forgotten by too many. Would you offer Abe here a ticket elsewhere? It appears that some people once believed that nothing was worth the price of liberty. I appreciate your sentiment, but if the U.S. becomes a police state (Homeland Security - step one), the terrorists have won. Maybe not the victory they were after, but they will certainly have taken the most sacred thing America has to lose. Giving into the fear of terrorism is giving in to terrorism. That's the idea behind terrorism. Giving up your freedom to the fear of terrorism is giving up the most precious thing you have as an American. Too many men have died already for our liberty to have us simply hand it over to our own government out of fear. The only way to fight terrorism - by its very nature - is not to be afraid. The sacrifice of liberty in America is not an option.

I believe in what America stands for, unequivocally. And part of that is not having to believe in what the government does, having the right to question it, and having the right to insure that what the government is doing is compatible with what America stands for. Telling me I should blindly accept what the government does - and hand over my rights to boot - is to me the definition of un-American.

If you want, you can get me a ticket to New Hampshire. They have their priorities straight.

[Roger Hall]

Originally posted by jriley
The Constitution starts like this:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

You made me go back and read through the Constitution, Declaration of Independance, and the Bill of Rights. Thanks for reminding me, some how I seem to have forgotten a few things.