I'm Shocked!

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

I get your point but 7-900 mi a day is a pretty extreme use case... Not everyone drives 12-15 hours a day ! ;-) Most people drive less than 100mi a day, and the accepted switchover range for an electric only household is about 300 miles - the cheaper cars will be there in a year or so. Right now it's only the tesla in terms of pure electric. Overnight recharging is no problem for that kind of range...

i would not be surprised if some recent discoveries in battery technology sped that up sooner than we all anticipate. I wasn't expecting self driving cars so soon, yet they're almost here...

I get it though. I love my E-golf for my daily commute: the torque, the silence when leaving the house at 6AM, the benefits like HOV lane access and 1/2 off the bridge, never visiting a gas station... But twice a week I still commute in my gas car just because I miss the sounds and handling... They're still toys until the range exceeds 300 mi (overnight rechargeable) and the price is only slightly more than a gasoline equivalent... It'll get there, I'm sure of it..

My point was that cars are not just for commuting. People take vacations or road trips. If I want to go see the the Grand Canyon or a myriad of other national parks, I need a car that can get there and back.

[Evans, Marv]

It's true people need a car for more than commuting to work. However, when my wife & I decide to drive somewhere on vacation, we never take out cars. We always rent a car, because I just don't like putting all that mileage on ours - plus on vacation you don't always know where E friendly locations are or if they exist where you're going. I'm sure this should change in the future. Another thing I think about is the future fees applied to electric cars to replace revenue from gas taxes - probably a mileage tax. So those buying electric cars now should appreciate this period they get to skate by.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

My point was that cars are not just for commuting. People take vacations or road trips. If I want to go see the the Grand Canyon or a myriad of other national parks, I need a car that can get there and back.

Lots of people will simply rent a real car for their holidays or own two cars, one electric, one IC engine.

[GH85Carrera]

I know I am weird!

I LIKE to drive my 32 year old 911 on long road trips and see the country in a fun to drive car, not some econobox POS. It has 165,000 miles and will have lots more before I ever sell it. I actually drive my 911 across the country to a track event and run on Laguna Secca, or Roebling Road.

I don't understand driving a rental when I own cars. It just does not compute in my brain.

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I know I am weird!

Nah, I totally get you... When those cars have 300+ miles range and a fast charging solution at most hotels, resorts, destinations then they will make sense as a one car deal... Until then, they are "extra" cars, and one could add a toy for people who own a house (harder in an apartment situation)... But again those extra cars "work" amazingly well for daily commute and are a hoot to drive...and in some cases like mine, their net cost is negligible... As long as I get to keep my 911 for the other days ;-)
In fact the reasons I got this car was simply a dirt cheap lease, an opportunity to test new tech, and saving my 911 from the city's potholes, parking and stop-go traffic. Otherwise nope.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

haha, no, and like Marrilyn I am sure he has a total compensation package as well. He got $5M in 2012 that is supposed to last 10 years.

But what I think is funny is your post,

"The man simply sold an immature product promoted by a corrupt media/government coalition to an uninformed public with their own money, skimming his salary off the top."

describes the F35 perfectly, just a gender change.

Oh the outrage over $4B vs $400B.

Oh, don't get me wrong, Shaun - I agree with you completely. The F35 debacle is inexcusable. This is, however, a thread about Musk and Tesla.

This reminds me of when my two boys were little. I would catch one doing something naughty, and wind up getting all the dirt on the other one.

Like then, the crime that is the F35 program in no way excuses or minimizes the crime that is Tesla. It doesn't even distract from it. They each deserve their own attention.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I see the electric car as only a partial solution. In big cities and for many commuters it is a choice. It moves the pollution to the power plants and out of the city center. I live within a few miles of the I-44 and I-35 and I-40 interchanges. I see all of them as fairly busy with interstate truckers and out of state travelers. For any long trip we will be using petroleum as the energy source for a long time.

The day an electric vehicle can travel 700 to 900 miles in a day and be 100% ready to go the next day just as far electric will take over. That is a long way off.

Electric is a partial solution and always will be. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with it. I don't see any type of body style or fuel type ever being "the one" vehicle on the road. In addition to my fun cars I have a Volt and a Tundra. I like them both, each has its place and its use.
Electric delivery trucks and garbage trucks in cities will be a game changer in terms of quality of live for city dwellers. I wonder if Musk designed passenger cars first, before trucks. Could it be due to tax advantages only accruing to passenger cars?
There are lots of transportation problems and almost as many solutions.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Oh, don't get me wrong, Shaun - I agree with you completely. The F35 debacle is inexcusable. This is, however, a thread about Musk and Tesla.

This reminds me of when my two boys were little. I would catch one doing something naughty, and wind up getting all the dirt on the other one.

Like then, the crime that is the F35 program in no way excuses or minimizes the crime that is Tesla. It doesn't even distract from it. They each deserve their own attention.

For me it's the one-sided faux outrage that bothers me so much Jeff, part of the divisiveness that is ruining out country, IMHO anyway. The heart of the thread, as I interpret it, is "I'd have more respect for him if he hadn't involuntarily risked my money."

It's all about wasting money and the list is long on that account.

I always say that India, as a nation, could rule the world if culturally they could stop the over-promise and under-deliver work ethic as well fix standardized corruption. Greatest entrepreneurial culture on the planet but those two things hold the country back.

While we are still #1 on the planet, it is amazing to me the amount of money purely wasted by our government and how much greater we could be if someone reigned that in, smartly. So, for me, while $4B of local, state and federal subsidies are something to be very concerned about, I'd like to see more bit ching about $400B. Personally, I'm unable to do anything about it now though have made some meager attempts which were completely worthless, but I think 10 years from now I'd like to be in a place to do something constructive on the issue.

We're on the same page, I'm just annoyed (can you tell) at the selectivism.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

haha, no, and like Marrilyn I am sure he has a total compensation package as well. He got $5M in 2012 that is supposed to last 10 years.

"The man simply sold an immature product promoted by a corrupt media/government coalition to an uninformed public with their own money, skimming his salary off the top."

describes the F35 perfectly, just a gender change.

Oh the outrage over $4B vs $400B.

So, what you are saying is the F35 was just another type of "Musk Scam"

Oh BTW, deflection is not a valid defense.

[sc_rufctr]

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6

For me it's the one-sided faux outrage that bothers me so much Jeff, part of the divisiveness that is ruining out country, IMHO anyway. The heart of the thread, as I interpret it, is "I'd have more respect for him if he hadn't involuntarily risked my money."

It's all about wasting money and the list is long on that account.

I always say that India, as a nation, could rule the world if culturally they could stop the over-promise and under-deliver work ethic as well fix standardized corruption. Greatest entrepreneurial culture on the planet but those two things hold the country back.

While we are still #1 on the planet, it is amazing to me the amount of money purely wasted by our government and how much greater we could be if someone reigned that in, smartly. So, for me, while $4B of local, state and federal subsidies are something to be very concerned about, I'd like to see more bit ching about $400B. Personally, I'm unable to do anything about it now though have made some meager attempts which were completely worthless, but I think 10 years from now I'd like to be in a place to do something constructive on the issue.

We're on the same page, I'm just annoyed (can you tell) at the selectivism.

Yup. Agreed 100%.

The outrage against Tesla is primarily from conservatives, of course, because "the other side" supports Tesla. The lack of outrage from the very same conservatives over the F35 program is because it's on "their" side, the whole military-industrial complex. It's for God and Country, by golly, for our mutual defense. What - are you un-American or something?

[island911]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

W140 FTW

Related, TSLA took a hit on the news that the FedGov plans to stop the tax breaks for the fun toy.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Yup. Agreed 100%.



The outrage against Tesla is primarily from conservatives, of course, because "the other side" supports Tesla. The lack of outrage from the very same conservatives over the F35 program is because it's on "their" side, the whole military-industrial complex. It's for God and Country, by golly, for our mutual defense. What - are you un-American or something?

So I’m not allowed to complain about Tesla unless I include every single govt waste program at the same time?

This is liberal logic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KNS]

The tax breaks should definitely go away. It’s a fine idea for an initial start up but the technology has been around long enough and it’s time for it to stand on its own.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by KNS

The tax breaks should definitely go away. It’s a fine idea for an initial start up but the technology has been around long enough and it’s time for it to stand on its own.

Agree Kurt and that's a whole other thread. GE got a ton of tax breaks to move to Boston. NFL teams get tax breaks for building stadiums. Amazon will get... Hugely profitable companies treated better than you and me. WTF? Who will ultimately make up the shortfall...we suckers, the electorate who keeps these boneheads in Congress.

Government is really good at giving treats to the donor class that we in the middle class pay for.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

I wonder if the Mercedes driver parked there out of jealousy or stupidity.
Where is that?

[tdw28210]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I wonder if the Mercedes driver parked there out of jealousy or stupidity.
Where is that?

My E350 Bluetec Mercedes gets 40 MPG on the highway, so.....

[cairns]

Tesla has more problems than money. The union wants in. Injuries to workers eclipse the national/industry average. The Model X chassis flexed so badly workers were using hammers to align body panels. And the doors still don't work.

He's going to make John DeLorean look like a success.

[island911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I wonder if the Mercedes driver parked there out of jealousy or stupidity.
Where is that?

Yes, those are the only two reasons the Mercedes driver could have parked there; jealousy and/or stupidity.

Not to take away from the Teslas there, but that Mercedes is one bad-ass ride.

Let's see... the Mercedes owner was there picking up a new Tesla? Perhaps that's what Musk is driven around in. Those W140's are popular for easy conversion to armored.

yeah... jealousy and/or stupidity

[island911]

Originally Posted by cairns

Tesla has more problems than money. The union wants in. Injuries to workers eclipse the national/industry average. The Model X chassis flexed so badly workers were using hammers to align body panels. And the doors still don't work.

He's going to make John DeLorean look like a success.

But none of that matters because Musk see Tesla as only being an EV industry provoking start up. per Elon Musk isn’t worried about Mercedes’s $1 billion electric car investment – BGR

uh huh... What a great goal for all that investor and public money. /sarc