No Eilene, I don't think your 28 year old son is a theif!

[javadog]

I find it odd that this stuff doesn't seem to appeal to some of the younger generations, but maybe I shouldn't. There seems to be a serious loss of culture among the "don't give a ****" bunch. I saw a young couple at a grocery store yesterday. They apparently had just gotten up, shortly before noon, and headed to the store to get something to eat, as they didn't plan ahead enough to stock their abode with food. He was wearing a hoodie over pajama pants, she was wearing a set of mismatched sweats. And, of course, the latest phones.

It seems that few people appreciate things of quality, or things that are made by hand by craftsmen that devote their entire careers to perfecting a difficult skill. Even fewer know anything of the history or the use of such things.

I inherited a set of Minton bone china from my mom, who used it often. I'm happy to use it, too and I have enough of it that it could be used by many generations to come. It's about 75 years old and will last indefinitely, with proper care. She also left me a set of silver, although I've passed it on and acquired a different set that is a little more classical in design. I also have a couple sets of Noritake, one of which I've used daily for at least 20 years.

What people don't often realize is that, if you buy something of quality that has a classic design, you can use it your entire life and never need to replace it. It's more economical in the long run and you get to surround yourself with nice things. It's enjoyable to use this stuff.

JR

[Tervuren]

Javadog, there is a difference between appeal, and respect.

What I see in throwing it into the trash is a lack of respect. It doesn't matter whether it appeals to me or not. It does matter that someone through a good usable object that didn't belong to them into the trash.

I am not really an object oriented person, but I do have two oddments I keep.

One was a dollar bill in change from a purchase I made, I keep it in a box with a Harmonica. Another is an out of date energy drink can given to me(as part of a crate) by a sponsor in a race several years ago.

I would never expect either to have any appeal to anyone else. They are like looking through a family photo, it is the memory they awaken more than the object itself.

[javadog]

I wasn't thinking of your comments when I wrote that. I get the no-respect thing and don't have much patience for it. Fortunately, I don't know anybody like that so I never have to deal with it.

I'm more interested in the decline of interest in classical things, for want of a better word. The finer accoutrements of life, whether we're talking about art, music, clothing, furnishings, etc. Following closely behind that are manners, basic knowledge of how to do things, or anything to do with the past.

It's quite a break with my generation.

[Hugh R]

My now different ex-SIL used to take some really nice bone china from England that she inherited from my Mom and run it through the dishwasher. I told her don't do that, and she ended up throwing it out when the patterns disappeared. Her comment was why have dishes you can't run through the dishwasher? I used to have an Aston Martin and a 911 and it never occurred to me to treat them like a 4 by 4 and go off-roading either.

[onewhippedpuppy]

As an engineer I strongly appreciate quality, craftsmanship, and fine design. But I could care less about dining with china and fine silver, and would make the same statement about my parents and grandparents. It's about your priorities in life, not generational broad brushing. I would also never dream of disrespecting someone else's expensive heirloom utensils. Frankly I'd probably be afraid to actually eat with them.

Personally I find much of what gets passed off as "culture" to be self-righteous posturing for the sake of impressing others.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

As an engineer I strongly appreciate quality, craftsmanship, and fine design. But I could care less about dining with china and fine silver, and would make the same statement about my parents and grandparents. It's about your priorities in life, not generational broad brushing. I would also never dream of disrespecting someone else's expensive heirloom utensils. Frankly I'd probably be afraid to actually eat with them.

Personally I find much of what gets passed off as "culture" to be self-righteous posturing for the sake of impressing others.

Spoken like a true engineer...

[varmint]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

As an engineer I strongly appreciate quality, craftsmanship, and fine design. But I could care less about dining with china and fine silver, and would make the same statement about my parents and grandparents. It's about your priorities in life, not generational broad brushing. I would also never dream of disrespecting someone else's expensive heirloom utensils. Frankly I'd probably be afraid to actually eat with them.

Personally I find much of what gets passed off as "culture" to be self-righteous posturing for the sake of impressing others.

it's about a principle. the flatware/china is just a convenient starting place.

sister in law came up for a visit. borwowed the car for a week. returned in covered in mud. full of fast food wrappers and running on empty.

does that make more sense to you?




got the kid a macbook pro last christmas. she had to have it "for school". now it's a dented coaster on the floor that she only uses to watch netflix.


i've got a huge library. included a number of fairly valuable first editions. if i were to die suddenly it would all be shoveled into a dumptruck.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by javadog

Spoken like a true engineer...

Yes, I do have a fairly limited tolerance of frivolous BS.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Yes, I do have a fairly limited tolerance of frivolous BS.

You need to work on developing the right side of your brain. There is much to be enjoyed in life that the left side ignores...

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by javadog

You need to work on developing the right side of your brain. There is much to be enjoyed in life that the left side ignores...

I enjoy many things. I could care less about fancy dishes. I’ll take an excellent brewpub over a white tablecloth restaurant any day of the week, and I’m rarely even paying the bill.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by javadog

What people don't often realize is that, if you buy something of quality that has a classic design, you can use it your entire life and never need to replace it. It's more economical in the long run and you get to surround yourself with nice things. It's enjoyable to use this stuff.

JR

Ever think that maybe they are buying "quality" items that are virtual?

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

Ever think that maybe they are buying "quality" items that are virtual?

Apparently, there is no limit to their stupidity.

Idiocracy, here we come.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by javadog

Apparently, there is no limit to their stupidity.

Idiocracy, here we come.

I would not consider more than half of those to be stupidity on the part of the buyer.

The stupidity is the ones that support companies like EA from 100's of purchases per months of "microtransactions" that add up to why they don't have a car or house. Several hundred dollars per month of multiple purchases a day.

I believe in Hugh's case one of three things happened.

Some one *did* try to steal the silverware, realized it would be found out and ditched it in the trash. Having been witness in court to a crime of theft by a 16 year old this is what the 16 year old did. She put what she stole in the trash.

Someone picked up a stack of things to be thrown away, and t he silverware was unseen in the middle. I have bad eyesight, I have been guilty of this; however the "clink" sound that I didn't expect caused me to sift through the trash and take the non throwaway items out.

Someone had no understanding of the value. If you grew up with paper throw away dishes and plastic throw away utensils you'd have no understanding of the value of utensils. Although perhaps a fourth reason would be throwing it away in spite.

I think #2 to be the most likely occurrence.

To go back to digital possessions. Most people would have no understanding of the value of a tiny USB key that is required to run software with a massive investment involved. It is just a USB stick that "doesn't work". They could throw away an item with a $25,000 replacement cost to purchase another software licence.

Time is money, and some of the examples in that video represent considerable time in crafting a digital world. It is little different than the cost of producing a movie, that is paid for by a backer, then re-paid in a long term income.

Imagine paying for the rights and original recordings of the Beatles, just some dumb plastic eh? How did that work out?

[Tobra]

Just had dinner on some 120 year old Havilland china, I bet one plate would cost you $50 to replace, used nice sterling silver set that is probably 150 years old. Mom's grandmother's stuff. My sister and I washed it all by hand afterward, a beautiful family heirloom that has already lasted 5 generations. I think the lack of interest in these sorts of things is a symptom of our disposable society.

Originally Posted by varmint

I've got a huge library. included a number of fairly valuable first editions. if i were to die suddenly it would all be shoveled into a dumptruck.

No sir, that is totally unsat.

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Yes, I do have a fairly limited tolerance of frivolous BS.

Frivolous is not the appropriate adjective for the suject under discussion.

[varmint]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Just had dinner on some 120 year old Havilland china, I bet one plate would cost you $50 to replace, used nice sterling silver set that is probably 150 years old. Mom's grandmother's stuff. My sister and I washed it all by hand afterward, a beautiful family heirloom that has already lasted 5 generations. I think the lack of interest in these sorts of things is a symptom of our disposable society.


No sir, that is totally unsat.



Frivolous is not the appropriate adjective for the suject under discussion.

The kid took my first edition Mencken Chrestomathy to school for some reason I never did get. The English teacher noticed it and she just gave it to him as a present like it was nothing. Took a couple weeks for me to notice. And was a staggering pain to get back.

[Tervuren]

One thing that is *very* interesting about older edition books, is you get to see the different colors of decades of thinking.

I have a complete multi volume 1956 World Book Encyclopedia in my room. It is interesting to read articles that are drastically changed should I go to the Library and read a more up to date version.

Every publisher is going to color the truth into how they want it; so being able to get a comparative view recorded from two previous generations is very valuable to me.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Frivolous is not the appropriate adjective for the suject under discussion.

I receive enjoyment of a meal based on the quality of the food and the company, not the plates and silverware. Many of my best meals have involved paper plates and red Solo cups. I will never begrudge others the little things in life that bring them joy, but would conversely ask that others not judge based on my priorities. I have the means to purchase fancy silverware if I see fit, however it has zero appeal to me. In my book, a $50 plate absolutely meets the definition of "not having any serious purpose or value".

[varmint]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

One thing that is *very* interesting about older edition books, is you get to see the different colors of decades of thinking.

I have a complete multi volume 1956 World Book Encyclopedia in my room. It is interesting to read articles that are drastically changed should I go to the Library and read a more up to date version.

Every publisher is going to color the truth into how they want it; so being able to get a comparative view recorded from two previous generations is very valuable to me.

What they’re doing to children’s books is unsettling. I have two copies of “goodnight moon”. In the earlier version the illustrators photo on the back flap shows him holding a cigarette. It’s been airbrushed out in the newer one.

I don’t want to call it Stalinist. But definitely bowderlizing.



And a topic for another thread.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

In my book, a $50 plate absolutely meets the definition of "not having any serious purpose or value".

It's a piece of art. When you consider how these things things were made, you might appreciate them more. I have bone china that is so thin, it's translucent. That's hard to make. It was all painted by hand, although it's done so well that you'd not know that at first glance. I have some Baccarat glassware that's extremely well made. Each piece, made by hand, by a craftsman that probably devoted his entire life to perfecting one thing.

You can say the same thing about a blown glass vase from Venice, or a fine piece of furniture, or anything that is done well enough to be the epitome of whatever type of goods you like.

In an age of mass produced, throw-away crap, some of us still appreciate how well things can be done, when someone with talent puts their mind to something.

And, over a lifetime, it can be good value...

JR

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by javadog

It's a piece of art. When you consider how these things things were made, you might appreciate them more. I have bone china that is so thin, it's translucent. That's hard to make. It was all painted by hand, although it's done so well that you'd not know that at first glance. I have some Baccarat glassware that's extremely well made. Each piece, made by hand, by a craftsman that probably devoted his entire life to perfecting one thing.

You can say the same thing about a blown glass vase from Venice, or a fine piece of furniture, or anything that is done well enough to be the epitome of whatever type of goods you like.

In an age of mass produced, throw-away crap, some of us still appreciate how well things can be done, when someone with talent puts their mind to something.

And, over a lifetime, it can be good value...

JR

You see, the guy who mortgaged his house to buy a virtual online asteroid also thought it was a piece of value.

Yet you call him an idiot.

If you considered the programming and artwork that went into it, you'd appreciate it more.

See how this works?

If you can't respect and appreciate someone else's purchases and hand me downs, how can you expect others to appreciate yours?

I was a machinist and I now work in engineering. I see both the value of real things and virtual things first hand.