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Quote:

Originally Posted by legion (Post 10148057)

... It's almost like GM and BMW took profitability into account with their designs. Who does that?

LOL snort!

Reading the linked article, and noting the cult-like following of Tesla, I don't understand why they don't price any of their cars for a profit.
It's the strangest thing.
I mean, they have sold a LOT of $100k+ cars.
Who in the market for a $140k car blinks if the same car is $160k or even $200k?
if anything, those buyers would rather have the barrier to purchase a bit higher.
It's the my boat is bigger and badder than your boat thang.

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion (Post 10148057)

It's too bad that they hand-build everything, have inconsistent quality, and can't figure out how to automate anything. It's almost like GM and BMW took profitability into account with their designs. Who does that?

The automation comments are completely wrong. Even on the S, let alone the 3. I've been there and seen it first hand. Their battery line is probably the best in the world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by island911 (Post 10147545)

The difference between a rich man and a poor man is the price of his mistakes...

...what Tesla really needs is a fundamental change in battery. (which does not now exist, even in experimental form. )

I suspect that Musk KNEW that the battery tech was not there and, as such, this whole thing was not a mistake but a calculated move.

The only question is whether he did all this as a financial scam or as a way to push forward his desire to have the world view EVs as a viable future for transportation by being in the news and on everyone's mind (as is happening in this thread).

My skeptical mind suspects the former.

Unlike a lot of people in this thread I want Tesla to besuccessful.

A US based EV car manufacturer leading the world... Imagine that! :)

Just sayin...

BTW: That factory runs 24/7

https://nypost.com/2018/08/23/tesla-insiders-say-its-a-s-tshow-under-beleaguered-elon-musk/

Quote:

Elon Musk is a total fraud

As Elon Musk continues to struggle — with Tesla under investigation by the SEC following his tweet that it might go private after “funding secured,” among several other self-inflicted wounds — employees tell The Post that the company is in turmoil.

“Elon talks about being a socialist and doing good for mankind — unless you work for them,” says one source. “It’s a s–t show.”

Musk is walking a razor wire, another source says, between the things he’s promising and the things he can actually deliver. Until recently, Tesla investors and employees bought into Musk’s vision, even though Musk was “saying things that don’t make sense, because he’s accomplished so much.”

That core belief may be eroding.

Last August, the Wall Street Journal published an exposé about the deep divide between the Tesla engineers working on self-driving cars and Musk’s pronouncements about deadlines and capabilities. At least 14 people had already resigned, and the electric car maker continues to suffer a talent drain.

In March, corporate treasurer and VP of finance Susan Repo left after five years, sales chief Jon McNeill left for Lyft, and chief accounting officer Eric Branderiz left for personal reasons. Chief engineer Doug Field left in July, as did top sales executive Ganesh Srivats.

An employee who worked under Srivats says he was recruited as a sales rep — or “owner adviser” in Tesla parlance — one year ago. He couldn’t resist Tesla’s seductive pitch.

“They told me, ‘Your industry is destroying the world,’” so come to Tesla and save it. Elon himself has been the ultimate draw for many.

Staff meetings with Musk, according to another source, aren’t that far afield from the infamous Trump cabinet meeting in which members went around the table praising the president and thanking him for the privilege.

And when Musk makes promises about a car’s capabilities that aren’t realistic, he’ll double down.

“He is very difficult to move off his stance,” says the source. “He’ll say, ‘The car can do X, Y or Z,’ and yes, that is possible — two decades from now,” the source said. “He bases his argument on the physically possible rather than the practical reality.”

Elon Musk: Sleep is 'not' an option

Musk’s sudden public unraveling has placed Tesla under more scrutiny. In May, he alarmed investors by calling their *semi-challenging questions “boring” and “boneheaded.” In July, after unsuccessfully inserting himself into the Thailand cave rescue attempt, Musk took to Twitter and called one hero diver “a pedo.”

On Aug. 7, Musk shocked Tesla and its investors with the “funding secured” tweet — at $420 a share, that would put the company’s valuation at about $80 billion.

In the wake of that tweet, the SEC opened an investigation, reportedly subpoenaing Tesla one week later.

This likely prompted Musk’s unhinged interview with the New York Times, published Aug. 16, in which he vacillated between tears and laughter.

Musk, 47, described the past year as “excruciating.” He said he hadn’t taken a week’s vacation since 2001. He claimed to be working 120 hours a week, with three to four days spent sleeping at the factory, never seeing daylight. Musk said he sometimes took Ambien to sleep, but according to the Times, board members know he has occasionally used recreational drugs.

Musk said much of his stress comes not from production woes or missed deadlines, nor a failure to delegate or master time management, but from the short-sellers who, Musk said, “are desperately pushing a narrative that will possibly result in Tesla’s destruction.”

Musk said he had no intention of abandoning Twitter, despite the pleas of board members and outside observers to do so.

“You had a very big shareholder last week say they want him to focus on executing and stop with the tweets,” Gordon Johnson, managing director of investment research firm Vertical Group, told the Washington Post in July. “What’s his angle? What is he doing? … He keeps promising things, and he keeps missing, and he’s not being held to task.”

One insider vouches for this and says that when Musk tweets about a new functionality or feature, it’s often in response to a fan who has asked when such a thing might be available. Musk, says this source, will often email the tasked department, then tweet back to the fan the date it will be done, no matter how unrealistic the request.

Some of Musk’s more incendiary tweets, goes one theory, are a form of distraction — if there are a number of commitments Musk knows he’ll never fulfill, he hopes people will forget by moving their eyes off the ball.

Meanwhile, Tesla’s current great hope, the (relatively) affordably priced Model 3, is having its own issues, as is the sales force responsible for moving them.

On Tuesday, Business Insider reported that although Tesla hit its production goal of 5,000 Model 3s by the end of June, 4,300 of those vehicles required substantial fixes. That’s 14 percent making it through “first pass yield,” or an initial production line that requires no fixes at all.

An industry exec told the site that the standard automaker FPY is 80 percent.

This Tesla employee isn’t surprised.

“The Model 3s come in [to the showroom] scratched or damaged,” he says. “They don’t fit together properly. If you look at the panels, they’ll be mismatched. They won’t line up.”

On Thursday, Business Insider reported that Wall Street analysts tore apart a Model 3 to find multiple failures, including “inconsistent gaps & flushness throughout the car, missing bolts, loose tolerances, and uneven & misaligned spot welds … The results confirm media reports of quality issues & are disappointing for a $49k car.”

This “owner adviser” says he left a job paying $150,000 a year for a Tesla base salary of $34,000, with Tesla execs promising enough in annual commissions to match his previous salary. He soon learned that would never happen, because Tesla keeps moving the goal posts.

“I had a friend who killed it — her commission check was going to be $42,000,” he says. “They said, ‘Just kidding. You missed [your goal]. It’s going to be $4,000 for the year.’”

Last May, Tesla settled a class-action suit brought by three former salespeople who accused the company of abusive workplace practices, including the constant manipulation of sales figures and commission fees.

Yet Tesla employees are directed to feel for only one victim: Elon Musk.

Recently, the owner-adviser says, headquarters “literally sent out a picture of the couch and blanket that he sleeps on” at the Tesla factory. “They were selling it to us like his team pitched in to buy him a new couch. He’s a f–king billionaire. He can afford a couch.”

Even as doubts fester within Tesla’s factory walls, few want to believe the trajectory may be downward.

“Elon emails us directly, saying, ‘We’re on top, we’re going to prove [everybody] wrong,’” this employee says. “Everyone realizes it’s f–ked up, but everyone’s afraid of losing their job before Tesla ‘hits it big.’ It’s a mess.”

Quote:

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr (Post 10151693)

Unlike a lot of people in this thread I want Tesla to besuccessful.

So does everyone else. We just don't like the fact that we are carrying the cost until one day they might be successful. If it is successful, we won't get back a dime of the dough he has been given.

Man, seems like Tesla is going to implode. Elon’s ego is going to prevent any meaningful changes that could realistically turn around the company.

I don't want Tesla to be successful.

I want government to stop deciding that it can "invest" my money, because when it does that I lose no matter what happens. If Tesla is successful, I don't see a dime of the money that was "invested" on my behalf. If Tesla is successful, government will decide that it "made the right decision" and continue to give my money away with no string attached. If Tesla is not successful, there is a chance that government will finally end this practice once and for all.

I want Tesla to be successful but success is NOT living off of someone else's tax money and scamming the public with false hopes and expectations.
Be a success! Make an honest product and earn an honest profit without govt subsidies. I'll be the first to celebrate.

I won’t outright say that I’m rooting for them to fail, but there’s an element of my thinking that does align with Chris. It bothers me that this company rode the gravy train of my tax dollars for years, and now that the tap has been turned off we are supposed to feel sorry for them. Meanwhile many other companies have developed electric cars on their own dime that may actually turn a profit. So what’s so special about Tesla?

Who built the train? Who is the train conductor?

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 10156352)

Design chutzpa.

Musk has been spending big-league on all sorts of ridiculously expensive -and super cool- ways of doing thing.

The biggest and best example of this are his rocket boosters that burn copious amounts of fuel to return to the launch pad.
Any normal engineer has the sense of economy to do such a thing efficiently - in this case a drag chute is in order.
Yet Musk chooses to do the ridiculously cool lunar-lander design approach to softly earth land the things.
At the same time, owning a car company touting fuel efficiency! :D You just can't make this stuff up.

So, for our tax dollars, we get some top-notch entertainment. --like Rich kids go crazy! :cool:

LOL

LOOK, Squirrel !

And Yeah, those big truck owners have been clamoring for something that plugs in. ...plugs in like a curling iron.

Wow.

Successful people don't take taxpayers money to earn their success.
They hire and retain other successful people to work with them.
They don't promise things they know they'll never accomplish.
They don't lie about their products.
They don't pump their stock with dishonest tweets.
They don't whine about their jobs to newspapers.
They don't call people who disagree with them pedos.

I still don't understand why they (Tesla) never charged buyers enough to clear a profit. Especially when the govts subsidized the crap out of them.

I suppose that the people who have them now got an incredible deal. An interesting collectible, even if the car build is rough around the edges.

As it is now the Seattle area has a De Lorean shop. I expect Teslas will have similar independent shops opening up.

I actually had a Tesla experience Thursday last. I heading into Salem, Oregon on Mission Street...now a busy 4 lane arterial that feeds into town from I-5. A model 3 next to my Mustang, sitting side by side on a red light. His Vanity plate: TRU EV. Wow! He felt the need to show off his instant torque when the light turned green. I did my usual delay of a bit because I've learned to pause in case somebody chooses to blow the red, T boning me.

Hey, he might have a great off the line jump, but I have a better sounding exhaust. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by cairns (Post 10157235)

Bingo!