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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevergrowup View Post
Just want to chime in from Norway, where 20% of ALL current cars sold are electric now.

Yes, Norwegians are 'rich' ...
But, but, but, as one of the most highly taxed citizenry in the world that can't be, can it?

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Old 11-20-2017, 12:49 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #81 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Tobra View Post
Why isn't the German government paying them to do so?
Are you sure they are not? How does German tax code handle invested capital, R&D or Depreciation? I do not know......

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Originally Posted by GH85Carrera View Post
Because Germany and the rest of Europe will soon ban petroleum powered vehicles from urban areas. They will be required to make electric cars to survive.
This means the capitalist system will have to do its job, which is to fill the void with affordable EVs for the masses. While this does not put them all in Tesla/Porsche/Mercedes products, the affluent will want to drive them.....
Old 11-20-2017, 01:09 PM
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They certainly are not subsidizing an individual company the way Mr Musk has been, which is the subject of discussion here.
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Old 11-20-2017, 01:43 PM
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I should start my own thread about this but...

Has anyone done a total cost analysis of electric vs gasoline cars?

As in comparing electricity prices vs gas vs storage and loss of power whilst storing electricity.
And have they factored in the "cost" of using coal produced electricity vs other sources?

At the end of the day it takes a certain amount of energy to produce and propel a car.

So what's the most "efficient" way to do that?
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Old 11-20-2017, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Norm K View Post
But, but, but, as one of the most highly taxed citizenry in the world that can't be, can it?
Being the "Saudi Arabia" of Scandinavia (with 1/6 the population) certainly doesn't hurt.
Old 11-20-2017, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sammyg2 View Post
Since you obviously have trouble differentiating reality from fantasy, can I borrow $100?
Dude..... this ain't no fantasy of mine...... and yes you can borrow $100.
Old 11-20-2017, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Tobra View Post
They certainly are not subsidizing an individual company the way Mr Musk has been, which is the subject of discussion here.
Do not know but here is what I found.... just inserted an excerpt from an article

Despite Germany's commitment to a social market economy, exceptions to market principles existed in West Germany and are proliferating in united Germany. German economic institutes and experts have repeatedly warned that authorities at various levels have supported many economic activities that should long ago have been discontinued or compelled to become competitive. Federal and Land authorities have ignored the complaints of the economists but have usually promised to reduce or eliminate subsidies as soon as feasible.
Old 11-20-2017, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc_rufctr View Post
I should start my own thread about this but...

Has anyone done a total cost analysis of electric vs gasoline cars?

As in comparing electricity prices vs gas vs storage and loss of power whilst storing electricity.
And have they factored in the "cost" of using coal produced electricity vs other sources?

At the end of the day it takes a certain amount of energy to produce and propel a car.

So what's the most "efficient" way to do that?
A Chevy Bolt is about ~30kWH for 100 mile charge. At 6 cents per kWH, that's about $2.00.

If you get 33 MPG you need three gallons to go 100 miles. Maybe $7.50 for gasoline?

Manufacturers say electric is 10% of a gas car, I would say more like 25%. There are other savings, like free charging where you work (or shop), no oil changes, almost zero brake wear etc. And there are wide ranges in 'fuel' prices, and some variation in kWH/100 miles, based on driving conditions and style. I am sure I could use double what Chevy and Tesla claim. You drive like a manic and the estimates go out the window.

I pay 10 cents/kWH, and I get 50 mpg in my car. The numbers for me would be $3.00 electric versus about $5.00 in diesel. Not enough to get my interest, my car was dirt cheap.
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Old 11-20-2017, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by cairns View Post
And FWIW that POS DeLorean would lap Nurburgring faster than any car Musk produces. I suspect a Tucker would too.
Ouch, Man.

I gots me one pal with one Tesla S. Early version. I like it. He paid thru the nose.

Tucker slam was outstanding.
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Old 11-20-2017, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc_rufctr View Post
I should start my own thread about this but...

Has anyone done a total cost analysis of electric vs gasoline cars?

As in comparing electricity prices vs gas vs storage and loss of power whilst storing electricity.
And have they factored in the "cost" of using coal produced electricity vs other sources?

At the end of the day it takes a certain amount of energy to produce and propel a car.

So what's the most "efficient" way to do that?
I think the problem is that "efficiency" isn't even a concern with EV proponents. They just think they are saving the planet, and that there's some magical electricity fairy that supplies all the power to charge their EV unicorns. The fact is that oil & gas will always be needed. It is the backbone to modern civilization. For vehicles, the reduction of "carbon emissions" is the goal of those who support EVs, with the side benefit of "sustainability" as they see fossil fuels as a non-renewable resource that will completely dry up soon (a can that has been constantly kicked down, regarding the time we have left until we "run out"). But many fail to see the big picture.

If there was a transition to 100% EVs, the power demands and infrastructure to keep them on the road would be monumental. The electricity to keep those batteries charged has to come from somewhere. However, it seems that nobody is concerned with that. In reality, a surge in EVs could easily increase the net demand/need for fossil fuels, not reduce it.

Further, if one is concerned with fossil fuels being a finite resource, why isn't there any concern about the "sustainability" (and environmental concerns) of mining the materials needed to produce batteries, and especially powerful electric motors?
They don't call them "Rare Earth" elements for nothing.

Last edited by Eric Coffey; 11-20-2017 at 03:20 PM..
Old 11-20-2017, 03:14 PM
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This is where the electric technology is headed. Performance AND efficiency. What's wrong with that? There are electrified detractors out there but PORSCHE is not one of them.



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Old 11-20-2017, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric Coffey View Post
Further, if one is concerned with fossil fuels being a finite resource, why isn't there any concern about the "sustainability" (and environmental concerns) .
Eric
You mistake Prius owners with Tesla owners.

Tesla owners are wealthy types who like the technology and what it says about them vs the impact to environment.
Old 11-20-2017, 04:30 PM
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So you are saying that Tesla owners are driven by emotion and how they are perceived by others, pretty much what I thought.
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Old 11-20-2017, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Tobra View Post
So you are saying that Tesla owners are driven by emotion and how they are perceived by others, pretty much what I thought.

Same demographic (image) as S Class, 7 series and Panamera which coincidentally are all sold with a 2019 Electric option..... actually put the Tesla sales next to the S class.... surprising how many Tesla's that are sold..... or were sold. I think sales have cooled...

Last edited by Macroni; 11-20-2017 at 06:05 PM..
Old 11-20-2017, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc_rufctr View Post
I should start my own thread about this but...

Has anyone done a total cost analysis of electric vs gasoline cars?

As in comparing electricity prices vs gas vs storage and loss of power whilst storing electricity.
And have they factored in the "cost" of using coal produced electricity vs other sources?

At the end of the day it takes a certain amount of energy to produce and propel a car.

So what's the most "efficient" way to do that?
What measure of efficiency are you asking about?
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Old 11-20-2017, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by wdfifteen View Post
So what? Every car does not have to be a milquetoast transportation appliance.
No they don't but the taxpayers shouldn't be dumping billions into research to produce a niche market car that may or may not be available other than a few folks.
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Old 11-20-2017, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sammyg2 View Post
Since you obviously have trouble differentiating reality from fantasy, can I borrow $100?
You should be ashamed of yourself! Do it like Musk "give me $100 million for research"
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Old 11-20-2017, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Por_sha911 View Post
You should be ashamed of yourself! Do it like Musk "give me $100 million for research"
For $5,000, I'll sell you the flying car option for any new Tesla. The feature will be activated at some unspecified future point.
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Old 11-20-2017, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdfifteen View Post
What measure of efficiency are you asking about?
The whole deal.

1. It it cheaper to build a gas car or all electric?
2. Which car would last longer without any major repairs or component replacement?
3. Does the lower maintenances costs of an Electric offset any financial advantage to owning a gas car?
4. Were is the lithium mined and how far is it shipped and then made into batteries and then shipped again to install in the car?
5. Which car uses more Joules of energy to do its job?

Electric cars seem great but I want some facts and figures on what it really "costs" to drive one.
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Last edited by sc_rufctr; 11-21-2017 at 02:12 AM..
Old 11-20-2017, 10:46 PM
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This is desirable and depending on your circumstances could actually make a decent daily.

Morgan EV3



And a JUAAAG.







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Old 11-21-2017, 02:08 AM
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