I haven't done anything on the man cave :( Between relatives coming and going and temp's in the 20's and 30's it's just not happening . We are dropping off our youngest son at the airport tonight and the nag in law leaves this coming Saturday . I'm in no hurry to see our son leave but the NIL............anyway I'll get back to it as soon as it warms up some . Happy New Year ! :D

NIL...Ha! Happy New Year!

NIL.. That is hilarious...thank god I don't have one of those...my mother in law is the anthesis of this...never complains about anything. As a matter of fact, she is sitting on my couch right now laughing with us and the kids...sitting by the fire and watching the NYC New Years Freeze! I hit the lottery on MIL but I am jealous of your man cave...been perusing the Garage Journal planning for this spring.

Just think , next year you'll have the "MAN "cave to go to,...No NIL allowed !!

To be fair the NIL comment should be in green font . I have a great MIL was just poking fun because she has been here for over a month . She is good to me and has been the entire 42 years I have known her daughter ( 2 years dating 40 married ) . Happy New Year everyone .

Thats funny, I'll use that!

No rush, too much work takes the fun out of it.

It may be cold outside and no nails/screws are flying but that doesn't mean I can't move forward :D Did some net surfing for LED light fixtures and came across these . On a whim I purchased three of the 8 packs so 24 total 4 ' lights for less than 200.00 . My plan is three strings of six running front to back equally spaced and then one string of six in the back of the garage which will be directly over the work bench area . Man I wish it would warm up it was 21 degrees this morning :confused: what is going on ???

Oh yeah go UCF Knights and GA. Dawgs !!!


https://www.amazon.com/Integrated-Fixture-Utility-Ceiling-electric/dp/B076FQ15R6/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1514809033&sr=8-13&keywords=4%27+led+shop+lights

It is 8 degrees out........... are you friggen kidding me ??? :mad: Stayed inside yesterday when it was in the 20's and watched football I'm definitely not going out there today :D Oh yeah go Dawgs !

Whenever you think you have enough lights......add a few more.:D

Man if twenty four 4 ' LED light fixtures isn't enough I give up ! I'll add one simple light fixture in the compressor room and that will be it for interior lighting . I do have two ceiling mounted roll up drop lights I pulled from the previous garage that I will use in this one also . The exterior of the building will have a few flood lights and a light by the entry door .

Make sure you can switch lights how you'll use them. Have a switch for the exterior lights or put them on a motion sensor. I didnt realize how much I needed a 3 way switch until too late. Same for the shop, I like a switch for 1-2 lights when I need to grab something, emtpy the trash.. and not fire up the entire place. Another is lights above your bench. Sounds simple but if you are between the light and your work you block the light. But the bench light close to the wall above the bench, I have them in a switch. I added a few led can lights in the soffit and but them on a dimmer. Works great and looks good too.

I like to feel like I'm working on the face of the sun. In my 3rd car where I have my lift, I have five 8' double bulb high output florescent fixtures with the reflector. The 3rd car garage is about 11' wide and 24' long, they are basically lined up end to end from front to back of the garage and one going laterally near my workbench. I also have a window and windows in my garage doors, because nothing beats natural light.

My plan is to have three strips of lights 24 ' long on the ceiling with them individually switched . One strip in the center then the other two equally spaced . Then one 24 ' strip of lights at the back of the garage over/near the workbench . These might be installed on the wall vs. the ceiling . The lights I purchased have a 6 ' switched cord so the workbench string will be " switched " by the cord . Then there will be two cord reeled worklights hanging from the ceiling for lighting specific areas like when working on suspension/brakes/under the car . I should be covered .

There will be outlets on the walls every 4 ' or so any additional lighting if needed can plug in there . This is just a DIY garage not Jay Leno's garage :D

Finally got a break with the weather today ! It was a little rainy/slight drizzle this morning but in the 40's so out I went . I started with the eye brow rafters , turns out cutting the 2 x 6's at 27 degree angle on both ends worked perfect . I cut them 29 1/2 " long and they will wedge in between top and bottom plates so they won't be moving in my lifetime . There will be 14 total . I didn't install them I'm actually going to do that after I install the exterior plywood . Easier for me to notch the plywood once it is installed with a multi tool . I made myself a quick jig out of a piece of scrap 2 x 6 so good to go .

I then moved to finishing the window headers . All four window frames are now roughed in 100 % so tomorrow I am going to start installing plywood . I think I will start at the front as I think it will be the hardest for me working solo , if I can knock that out I'll gain speed/confidence for the balance . Plus it will add structural side to side support . The weather is supposed to be decent for a few days then turn to crap/cold again so I'll see how much I can get done this week . Too bad about the Dawgs :(

I give up....... friggen raining and foggy out :( Oh well while I wait for weather to clear heading to HD to pick up final trim boards for garage door openings . I want them installed before I put on the exterior plywood .

Can't catch a break it's raining out again !

Today no rain but in the low 30's......... crap........ but I went out and finished trimming out the garage door openings with 1 x 6 . Both openings now done and within spec for the 10 x 9 doors . Tomorrow supposed to be in the 40's so plywood is the plan for tomorrow . Will post a pic or two once plywood is installed .

Just remember 'overbuilt' is not a derogatory term.

I'm getting so much useful info from this thread, will be ordering some of those lights.

Just think next winter you will be inside your new shop enjoying your projects, instead of fighting the weather.

Keep the updates coming.

Cheers Richard

I'm glad you are able to learn some things as that was the intent of my posting this topic . I did receive the lights they come packed in a cardboard tube inside of a box ! I plugged each one in while still inside the tube and they all lit up and seemed white bright . For the price they should work fine .

I was hoping to get an early start today but it's 15 degrees out so that is not happening . By the time it warms up the NFL playoff game will be close to starting so not sure what I'll get done today . Tomorrow supposed to be mid 40's which is warm enough for me . Yeah I am looking forward to be able to USE the garage vs. BUILD the garage . But there is total satisfaction in the build portion .

My hope by building most of it myself that I could somewhat control the costs . To date I have spent $15,413.56 :eek: . That includes $1950.00 for the mini split and $1,000.00 for the used 2 post lift so not really part of the build cost . I will itemize at the end of the build the construction costs . The big dollar hitters I still have left to go is the professional electric install , the exterior siding , the garage doors/openers , insulation and the perimeter retaining wall . My guess is I will be all in for around 25 - 26K . I think if I would have had a conventional stick built building done by a pro it would have been higher but that really doesn't matter at this point :D

By doing most of the work myself I can control the cash output based on my progress , purchase items as I need them vs. buy everything in one shot . Plus I have had the time to find used plywood , a local vendor for inexpensive windows/doors , finding the inexpensive LED shop lights things like that . I am retired now so all this money is coming out of my " play " money and it's going down faster than Linda Lovelace :D

Today I didn't go outside until 11:00 and it was only 34 degrees , it stayed at 34 the rest of the day . I came in at 3:00 but was able to get a little bit of plywood up . I'm waiting for pics to upload from my phone so I can post . Tomorrow to be warmer so I am hoping to have the front of the garage closed up with plywood . Amazing how two sections of plywood can stiffen up the garage as much as they do . I am using 1 5/8 x 6 course thread drywall screws to install the plywood , they seem to bite and hold very well . It will all be covered with 1/2 " rigid foam insulation and the siding so not concerned that they are " interior " screws . Will post pics as soon as I can .

Good going getting started on your sheathing, it really does stiffen up a structure.

I was able to get a little done on the fence panel that's next to the entry gate, I'm make it into an opening section for ease of access with the RVs that will be moving thru it.
The adhesive that I used on some parts three days ago still hasn't set up. Plus I'm not keen to work in the chilly stuff myself.

I noticed the details of your kick Azz sounding Boxster. Don't remember seeing it, any pics your could share?

My shop is in shade all day this time of year so doesn't warm up much thru the day.
These first pieces put on three days ago still haven't stuck. I'll have to add some fasteners tomorrow.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1515975044.jpg

tevake I don't have any recent pics of the Boxster . It has a 996 GT3 front bumper cover , GT3 replica rocker covers and a GT3TEK rear undertray . I installed a top with glass rear window . The engine is the heart of " the beast " , it is a Jake Raby short stroke 3.6 litre . Makes 280 hp at the rear wheels so aprox. 315 -320 at the crank . I took her out today in the cold what a hoot she spins the tires everywhere . Once I get done with the man cave it will be her permanent home and I can get back to treating her right .

One pic of where I ended yesterday . While it's only two pieces of plywood it's a start :D The front of the building is a difficult place to work because the concrete apron is deep and angled . So yesterday I backed my pickup to the garage with tailgate down . Set a ladder in the bed and it was much safer . That first piece of plywood on the upper right was a joy to install . Wife was on the ladder ( I call it the widow maker because it wobbles ) and I had one foot on the truck bed rail and the other on a upside down Home Depot 5 gallon bucket ! I said to my wife I wonder if any of the neighbors are catching this :D It is not the way they do it on This Old House ;) But hey you gotta do what you gotta do .

Sue pounded in 2 nails just to hold it in place then I installed a crap load of screws . Today's weather forecast is iffy with 1 " of snow possible tonight so who knows how far I'll get today . I am leaving the plywood a little long/wide so I don't have to make picture perfect cuts and will clean up the excess with a router . It helps speed things up a little bit . That's it for now .

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516012195.jpg

Today was another chance to make my face cold :D so out I went into the low 30's ........ global warming my a$$ :rolleyes: Anyway I finished installing plywood on the front . I still have some trimming to do with a router but that's easy work . I marked the back of the plywood with a Sharpie for each eye brow rafter . If I can find my Dremel multi tool I will start notching the plywood so I can slip the rafters through . I'm feeling pretty good with the progress . The next few days not looking too good will just take it day by day . Three more sides to go and she's enclosed !

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516049968.jpg

Another day is the 20's this morning I think I am now numb to this crap :D Anyway I was not in the mood to hoisting 4 x 8's of plywood today so I turned my attention to another portion of the build . Some of you stated to leave my concrete forms in place as long as I could , well today they came out ! One of the reasons I have left them in place is they are helping to support/hold in place the gravel and dirt due to the elevation in the landscaping . So I decided to pull the forms and put in their place white painted rolled flashing .

After the flashing was nailed into place I then installed 1 x 6 PVC trim . This forms the bottom of where the wall plywood will be installed . I will use zee flashing and space the plywood maybe 1/2 " above the flashing . I think it came out good and will " space " the siding high enough off the ground . So both sides and the back are now trimmed at the bottom with PVC boards .

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516143180.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516143180.jpg

There needs to be an angled wall uphill to divert the flash flood water.

Actually, get a backhoe and dig the whole area up.

All in due time my man :D I am a one man army . There will be a stone retaining wall along the back and the two sides . Angling of runoff water , perimeter drainage pipe and a decent amount of gravel are all part of the plan . Lastly there will be seamless gutters installed on both sides to control roof runoff .

You know sometimes you just have to shake your head :rolleyes: Yesterday I knew the weather was going to be decent today so off I went in pursuit of z flashing for the bottom where I installed the PVC trim . Easy right ? OH NO........ I could not find ANYONE that had it in stock that would fit over the 3/4 " thick PVC trim . I went to Home Depot , a local big lumber yard , a local big hardware store..........nada . Oh this is just great ;) Then I remembered a local metal shop , they actually installed my metal roof I figured if anyone had it they did . So off I went , when I got there I knew I was in trouble no cars there . Went to the door and it was locked , closed I guess for the cold/icy weather :confused:

So today I call them and they are open :) but after talking with the receptionist they don't stock it they bend it on demand :( So I said when can I get 80 ' ? She said probably tomorrow........... so now I wait ! But hey at least they can help me :D I could have started installing the plywood from the top down but it will be much easier from the bottom up as I can rest the next sheet on top of the previously installed sheet . Weather is supposed to be mid 50's tomorrow but I have no idea when I will be able to pick up the flashing . Weekend is supposed to be near 60 but this is grandchildren weekend so no work allowed.......... so say's the spousal unit . You just can't make this stuff up :D

Never got a call from the sheet metal shop yesterday :( so I called them around 4:00 . They still had not gotten around to bending up my Z strips I guess they are super busy or everyone is out deer hunting :D . I told the sweet thing on the phone that I really needed these come Monday........ we'll see . I am dead stopped without them I guess poor planning on my part ;) On a brighter note my two Chamberlain jack shaft wall mount garage door openers arrived yesterday safe and sound so that's good .

Today and tomorrow will be quality time with the grandchildren so hang in there guys I will make some progress next week......... I hope ! SmileWavy

I'm thinking ahead to insulation and I need some help/advice . For the wall insulation I know I will go with either R19 or R21 kraft faced fiberglass insulation whichever I can get the best price on . Exterior will get house wrap before siding . But I am struggling on what to do for the ceiling . I know I will use white metal roofing panels for my finished ceiling and I have two plans for insulating and need help on which is best or preferred.

1.Option A . My original plan was to staple 4 ' wide reflective foil to the bottom of the rafters by the roof decking , this will create a 3.5 " air barrier/space to the bottom of the metal roofing . Actually it will be 5 " because of the 2x4 perlons . I have the reflective foil left over from previous garage so no additional cost . I would then insulate the ceiling using conventional R30 kraft faced for an additional vapor barrier .

2.Option B . Because I over think everything I now have plan B :D . Being a metal roof and this will be a conditioned space ( AC/heated ) my concern is controlling condensation at the bottom of the metal roof . So my thoughts are to nail/screw 2x4's laying flat to the bottom of the perlons . That would leave a 2 " space to the bottom edge of the rafter . I would take 2 " poly iso 4x8 panels and screw/nail/glue them to the bottom of the 2x4 spacers . I would do this because I will have soffits running the full depth of the building on both sides ( 28 ' each side ) and the full length ridge vent already in place .

So with option B the poly iso I am hoping is my vapor barrier and isolates/eliminates any condensation from the metal roof . Plus it adds aprox. R12 - R14 of insulating value . With this option I might be able to get away with maybe R19 over the ceiling and still end up with R30 + in total . I can purchase used poly iso 4 x 8 panels locally for $16.50 each and I suppose I could also use my reflective foil in option B by laying it over the fiberglass insulation in the ceiling .

I have gone on other DIY forums and I get cricket noises :D so I'm turning to my Pelican brotherhood for help .

If you utilize the used poly panels, I would do it this way:
From your conditioned space out/up:
Interior sheathing
Vapor barrier
used poly sheets
additional insulation with no vapor barrier.

Best
Les

My concern with this method ( and maybe I'm wrong ) is what if condensation forms on the bottom of the metal roof panels and drips down on the insulation ? Or is the belief that with proper ceiling vapor barrier , insulation and ventilation that condensation will not form ?

Right. Your vapor barrier keeps moisture from the conditioned space from becoming a problem. Ventilation in soffits and peak keeps the space above the insulation at ambient levels, so no condensation.
Best
Les

OK let's keep this going :D The vapor barrier that sits on top of the metal garage ceiling , should that be plastic film like 4 - 6 mil ? Or is kraft faced fiberglass insulation sufficient ? I looked on the website of the radiant foil that I have , it is a perforated foil specifically made for attic installation . So while it is somewhat of a vapor barrier it is not a full vapor barrier . The perforations per the website allow it to breathe .

So I would like to install the radiant barrier on the rafters under the metal roof , this will have 5 " air gap to the metal roof panels and will have full length soffit and ridge vents. Will have metal ceiling in the garage , the vapor barrier then the insulation . Just need to nail down the vapor barrier part and I think I've got it ;) . So the million dollar question on the vapor barrier , use plastic or is the kraft facing on insulation sufficient ? And if plastic barrier is the answer then use unfaced insulation ? Is it too early for a beer ? :D

Have you looked into spray foam insulation? New a guy who had it in his steel building, and there was a huge difference between the way his felt in the summer and the building I had, the same size.

If you can make the steel airtight, it can be your vapor barrier.
Whatever is above /outside your vapor barrier must not inhibit the passage of moisture.
Best
Les

Byron I have not ruled out spray on foam but I'm told it is cost prohibitive but won't know for sure until I call someone and get a quote . And everything I have read to do closed cell foam correctly you have to encapsulate the entire roof structure including ridge vent and soffits . I am old school and still believe a " breathing " attic is a better way to go .

oldE thanks for the feedback I am honing in on a solution .

You may wish to take a little time and study moisture control. The question of where to put a vapor barrier depends somewhat on the climate. You have to consider which side of the wall the greater moisture content is and what temperatures are like, if that is a seasonal issue. Hey solution that works in Michigan may not be the same as one that works in Florida. We are all used to thinking that the higher moisture content is inside the building and that you are trying to prevent it from migrating through the wall when temperatures are low enough outside for moisture to freeze. Given where you live, that may not be your particular problem. Do a Google search, you'll see what I mean.

Still have not heard from the metal shop :rolleyes: , I think I now have one clue on why the North won the war :D . Anyway this morning I went out and finished installing the PVC trim as I had just tacked the pieces in place . Everything now screwed in place . Then turned towards cutting the plywood for the eye brow rafters . I finally found my Dremel multi tool and with a new blade went to town . I cut 14 openings in the plywood and test fit my rafters in each one they be good ;) I need to go purchase one cheap roll of roof felt so then I can install the eye brow rafters , cut and install the CDX plywood then one layer of roof felt then drip edge and metal roof panels . I have metal left over from when the pole barn was installed I just need to cut to size .

I am really hoping the metal shop calls me today so I can go pick up . It started raining at noon today :( and is raining out now but forecast for next several days is decent . I can get some plywood installed if I can get this damn Z strip metal ! Anyway here is one pic showing the eye brow rafter cutouts in the plywood .

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1516649575.jpg