Thoughts on this e36 M3:

[Tobra]

There is a guy who autocrosses with us with that exact same car. I love that thing, Lloyd is pretty cool too.

[aschen]

I almost bought a stock pristine e36 M3 coupe about a decade ago. 20k miles and as new for around 15k I believe, the market has certainly changed a bit.

Anyways, I was really let down by the driving experience. It seemed completely mundane and relatively soft. I think my expectations were too high. I know they can be turned into great performance cars with a bit of suspension work. e46 m3 is a much more exciting drive IMHO, the motor is much more fun and it doesn't feel as much of a big as you might expect. Even those seem to be getting a bit more expensive and hard to find these days. Shame about the rear uni-body fragility.

Of course if you don't mind auto or vert you can have a nice example for cheap. Its the MT coupes that are a bit tougher

[speeder]

Originally Posted by javadog

This leads me to believe that you haven't yet driven one. I gotta say, you need to drive a few of them before deciding to go down that road.

A stock E36 M3 doesn't float my boat. A modified one does. I'd suggest a '95, so you don't have to deal with the OBD2 crap. I'd suggest that you don't need a sunroof or A/C. I'd suggest that you transplant a real M3 engine into it. I'd also put wider front wheels on the front and the stickiest tires you can buy. I'd install replicas of all the M3 Lightweight/GT parts, if you can stand the looks of the rear wing. I'd dig into the M3 parts bin and up the cooling capacity (radiator and oil cooler) and install the front brakes from the Euro M3. I'd want cloth front seats.

Do all that and you'll have a really fun, pretty fast car. By a stock one and you'll have a nice driving sedan. Your priorities may be different than mine but most people buy these cars to chase corners on early Sunday mornings. You've probably got the nice driving sedan box already checked.

JR

That sounds like a hot setup but I'd start w a cheap salvage title car or roller for that since you'd be throwing away most of it to be replaced w the hotter parts on your list. They are around on local CL for $5k w 200k miles and worn-out interiors.

I actually don't have a sports car or hot sedan at the moment. I've been peeping 2008-10 BMW M3 manual trans cars and found myself drifting into looking at ads for older ones. I loved the V-8 M3 when it came out, a friend had one and I drove it a couple times. Talk about a great weekend track car.

[Jeff Higgins]

I think they are pretty cool cars. My youngest son has an E46 to complement his '68 911 and, I have to say, the M3 is every bit as much fun to drive.

So, I don't know much about these, but I have to ask - did the E36 have the same rear sub frame mount issues that the E46 had? My son told me which series had this problem, and I can't remember if it was the predecessor or successor to the E46.

We fixed this problem on his car. The tub cracks where the rear sub frame mounts. BMW had a recall on it, but apparently is was kind of a half-assed "fix", and you are better off starting without it. Let me tell you, this little repair is not for the faint of heart. If it has not been done, and done properly, it needs to be. This isn't like the IMS bearing thing where a small fraction were affected - this is apparently all of them.

So, again - I dunno if E36's are affected. Please, if anyone knows for sure, let us know.

[javadog]

They don't have the same problem as the E46 cars but they do have their own issues. The factory installed some reinforcements in most of the cars but the early cars may not have them. Most of the aftermarket companies dedicated to those cars offer a variety of reinforcement kits.

[KNS]

E36s did not have the rear subframe issue that E46s had. Later E46s (like my 2004) are not prone to the problem.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by javadog

This leads me to believe that you haven't yet driven one. I gotta say, you need to drive a few of them before deciding to go down that road.

A stock E36 M3 doesn't float my boat. A modified one does. I'd suggest a '95, so you don't have to deal with the OBD2 crap. I'd suggest that you don't need a sunroof or A/C. I'd suggest that you transplant a real M3 engine into it. I'd also put wider front wheels on the front and the stickiest tires you can buy. I'd install replicas of all the M3 Lightweight/GT parts, if you can stand the looks of the rear wing. I'd dig into the M3 parts bin and up the cooling capacity (radiator and oil cooler) and install the front brakes from the Euro M3. I'd want cloth front seats.

Do all that and you'll have a really fun, pretty fast car. By a stock one and you'll have a nice driving sedan. Your priorities may be different than mine but most people buy these cars to chase corners on early Sunday mornings. You've probably got the nice driving sedan box already checked.

JR

So, back to this post; you got me thinking that a guy could build a pretty good stripped-out hotrod e36 M3 from one of the cheap, high miles cars around. Which real M3 engine would you put in and would it be readily available or the euro version for that car or (?)

I know that these little projects can get carried away but still, compared to 911 hotrod money these days, it would be a bargain. Please elaborate, JR or anyone else who knows these beasts.

[javadog]

I chose to use the 3.2 engine used in the Euro market E36. I used a group N ECU to run it. It might be a little tough now to find one of those without a bunch of mileage on it, so a 3.2 from a domestic E46 might be an easier choice.

[speeder]

Cool. Did you track it or just a street hotrod?

[javadog]

Street hot rod. I quit doing track events in 1987. Cars that are drivable on the street make lousy track tools.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by javadog

Street hot rod. I quit doing track events in 1987. Cars that are drivable on the street make lousy track tools.

Without a doubt, there is a trade-off. I've owned some good street cars that were fun to take to the track occasionally but they were by no means dedicated track weapons. Certain things, like shedding weight, (stopping short of removing all comfort), can be mods you don't pay for with pain on the street.

Here is an example of a cheap, schitwagon M3 for sale in L.A. They are really plentiful here:

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sfv/cto/d/1996-bmw-m3-coupe-e36-5spd/6471983315.html

Are 1995 models hugely more desirable because of the lack of OBDII? I always thought that OBDII was a good thing but not for modding?

[speeder]

And here is what looks like a pretty decent '95 for a little more but clean title and half the miles. I've always heard that non-thrashed M3s are hard to come by but there seems to be a few offered:

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/cto/d/1995-bmw-m3/6479763413.html

[javadog]

BMW did not make it easy in those days to swap engines. I preferred the pre-OBD2 models, and in other brands as well, because there was less crap you had to deal with. l ended up changing the engine, exhaust, intake, radiator, radiator ducting, ECU, evaporative emissions crap, plus all sorts of random things to accommodate the different engine.

If you plan to swap out a bunch of parts, it may be worth buying something that's not worn out, so the parts that you don't use will have some value to others and can defray the costs of the build. I don't know that I would go much beyond 100,000 miles, because you'll end up where everything is pretty beat. It won't be a simple motor swap, you'll be into the tranny, the suspension and who knows what else.

I still think you need to drive one, before you even seriously consider any of this.

[onewhippedpuppy]

By that point you could easily have just bought an E46 M3 instead. Unless you just love the E36, I think the E46 is better in just about every way.

[911SauCy]

You don't need to ride the wave to own an E36 M3. My Brother In Law picked this one up about a year ago for $2800 from a guy on CL, who just didn't care about it anymore.

Car his high mileage but is CLEAN and was always mechanically maintained with an open check book.

And you really do need to drive one before knocking it. They're GREAT (imho of course )

[speeder]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

By that point you could easily have just bought an E46 M3 instead. Unless you just love the E36, I think the E46 is better in just about every way.

I have no interest in an e46 M3. They are heavy, I don't like the styling and decent ones are expensive. I have plenty of 2nd hand experience w those, i.e., friends had them.

My interest skips those and jumps straight to the E90 M3. I like those and a good one is virtually the same price as a good e46. 414 stock hp and an 8k rpm V-8 that is lighter than the e46 6-banger. Anyone have any real world experience w those?

[javadog]

I have no experience with an E90 M3. Having said that, everyone that I know that had a "modern" BMW has gotten rid of it and will never own another BMW again. I've owned 7 BMW's, granted that all of them were older, and I have zero interest in their cars and bikes at this point.

I don't know if that helps, but it is an opinion, of sorts...

[greglepore]

No real e90 experience, but friends that have had them have all jumped ship before they ran out of extended warranty.

This thread took a quick turn, from a turnkey driver car to a tub that will be built out as a Mulholand carver.

[speeder]

Good point. I'll have to poke around the web a little on those.

A couple people in my life had them new but switched out of them within a year or so, not because of reliability issues at that point, though. I drove both and holy schit, what a great driving car.

[aschen]

I dont know much about the e90s reliability, but man are they relatively cheap and plentiful in these parts.

I have driven one quite a bit. The car is decent. The engine, however is fantastic, amazing, orgasmic.......any superlative fits really. It is a real treat to wind out that v8.