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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmandue View Post
As far as R/C plane Vs Drones, I believe many medium to high end drones come with cameras built in.
Even some of the really cheap ones come with cameras these days.
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Old 05-18-2018, 04:28 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flipper35 View Post
I am not sure how long the shoot down is a crime will hold up either. They suspended the law requiring you to register them (the hobbyist size) which removes them from the same category as an airplane.
That law was reinstated not too long ago.
I know, because I had to register one about two weeks ago.
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:48 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #42 (permalink)
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If the sUAS (drone) is 0.55 or pounds or less (quite a few are now) then it need not be registered. If it is >0.55 pounds (and less than 55 pounds) it needs to be registered as a sUAS. “Hobbyist size” means nothing and has no FAA definition but may be getting used here to refer to those drones that are 0.55 pounds or less, therefore not requiring registration prior to use.

55 pounds or more (like the stuff Seahawk is working on, most likely) follow a different (N-number) process more similar to that used for “regular” manned aircraft but still require registration.

Ignorance of the rules is not going to “fly” as an excuse. They’re not hard to comply with and they’re pretty easy to find. If you use a drone in an irresponsible way then yes it’s very likely you’ll get away with it (you’re more likely to draw the attention / ire of some local yokel cop that really has no jurisdiction to enforce federal regulations and is probably just as ignorant of the applicable regs as you are) but you are still putting yourself in peril - if it gets back to the FAA you can get yourself in very hot water (and quite a few people have!)

In short, know the rules, follow them and don’t be stupid and you should be fine and avoid any unwanted attention - whether legally justifiable or not.

For what it’s worth I hold a sUAS Certificate from the FAA as well as a Commerical Pilot Certificate and Flight Instructor Certificate, so I’m reasonably familiar with his stuff. I also own and fly my own drone periodically for pleasure and for business use (mostly to evaluate building roofs and other elements that are impractical or potentially dangerous to examine any other way in conjunction with my architectural practice)

Last edited by Porsche-O-Phile; 05-19-2018 at 01:11 AM..
Old 05-19-2018, 01:07 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #43 (permalink)
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Old 05-19-2018, 06:50 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile View Post
55 pounds or more (like the stuff Seahawk is working on, most likely) follow a different (N-number) process re similar to that used for “regular” manned aircraft but still require registration.
We have three UAS, two under 55lbs (the commercial variants - one a ducted fan UAS the other a blended wing lifting body) and the DoD UAS that weighs in at 59lbs.

The 55lb limit, btw, is arbitrary an number based on Boeing/Insitus's Scan Eagle - which weights-in just under 55lbs. I was instrumental in deploying many Scan Eagles on Navy ships.

Boeing lobbied hard to make sure their UAS met any new criteria. Honestly, what is the kinetic affect of a 55lb projectile or a 75lb projectile if the 75lb projectile flies 1/2 as fast as the 55lb projectile?

Arbitrary number.

The real revolution in UAS is in the sensors. We put a EO camera on a gimble (based on the iPhone cameras) on our ducted fan UAS because it weights ounces. Think about that.

To the OP, get a pellet gun to make it more sporting.
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:00 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seahawk View Post
... Honestly, what is the kinetic affect of a 55lb projectile or a 75lb projectile if the 75lb projectile flies 1/2 as fast as the 55lb projectile?
...
is that rhetorical, or do you want the math?

the 55 is ~3x the kinetic energy.
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Old 05-19-2018, 10:14 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #46 (permalink)
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Totally agree - Ke = 0.5m x v^2

The velocity is what matters a LOT more.

But it’s the FAA, so...
Old 05-19-2018, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by island911 View Post
is that rhetorical, or do you want the math? :cool
I'll have you know that I take offense to your rhetorical-based assertion re my math skills- so does the Intern who did the math for me. How dare you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile View Post
The velocity is what matters a LOT more.

But it’s the FAA, so...
That is the central issue. The FAA, and I worked with them extensively when I was in uniform, is just now getting around to building a data base on commercial UAS usage.

I could write a book on how dysfunctional the FAA has been. I'd put POP in charge and call it a day.
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Old 05-19-2018, 12:20 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #48 (permalink)
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Yup when you see a drone overhead they are looking in your windows. LOL!

Pics from mine and its maiden voyage. I think I was about 300 feet up here. There is no zoom function on the camera so I cannot look in your windows. If I fly lower than 100 feet I may be able to see you in your yard.



This is what 100 feet up looks like.


This one was over a customers 40 acre property the cleared square is where he is building his home.



I purchased this drone for Surveying, I am shopping now for mapping software so I can use it for aerial land surveying. Software ranges from $1500-$7000 I am trying to find something I feel will work best for me. In this instance I could lay down targets, put XYZ values on them then photograph the property from various angles and heights, then overlay the pictures into the mapping program.

It will grind the numbers and create a to scale 3d map of the land saving me 30 hours of field time, it will pay for itself on my first job using it.

I have my hobby license and am working on my commercial one.
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Old 05-20-2018, 06:32 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john70t View Post
That is why full auto 50+ cal needs to be legal!!
I saw a video of someone shooting a Barrett 50 cal straight up into the air....it took nearly 2 minutes for the incendiary round to come buzzing (cavitating from not spinning) back down to earth and explode....I prefer a shot gun, that disperse after about 300 feet.
Old 05-20-2018, 07:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #50 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jims5543 View Post
Yup when you see a drone overhead they are looking in your windows. LOL!

Pics from mine and its maiden voyage. I think I was about 300 feet up here. There is no zoom function on the camera so I cannot look in your windows. If I fly lower than 100 feet I may be able to see you in your yard.



This is what 100 feet up looks like.


This one was over a customers 40 acre property the cleared square is where he is building his home.



I purchased this drone for Surveying, I am shopping now for mapping software so I can use it for aerial land surveying. Software ranges from $1500-$7000 I am trying to find something I feel will work best for me. In this instance I could lay down targets, put XYZ values on them then photograph the property from various angles and heights, then overlay the pictures into the mapping program.

It will grind the numbers and create a to scale 3d map of the land saving me 30 hours of field time, it will pay for itself on my first job using it.

I have my hobby license and am working on my commercial one.


We do that with manned aircraft. The drone are great for very small areas. Once it gets to be over a square mile most drones become more work than you will want to mess with. Pix4D and Skyline are the packages we use the most. Expensive software. It will depend on what your final product to sell is going to be.
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Old 05-20-2018, 07:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #51 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jims5543 View Post
I purchased this drone for Surveying, I am shopping now for mapping software so I can use it for aerial land surveying. Software ranges from $1500-$7000 I am trying to find something I feel will work best for me. In this instance I could lay down targets, put XYZ values on them then photograph the property from various angles and heights, then overlay the pictures into the mapping program.

It will grind the numbers and create a to scale 3d map of the land saving me 30 hours of field time, it will pay for itself on my first job using it.

I have my hobby license and am working on my commercial one.
Jim, as part of the UAS company I sold almost three years ago, we teamed with a few surveying companies and provided them sub centimeter resolution for survey work. We used ground referenced points, etc. The camera on the UAS must point straight down and I recommend autopilot grid flying. Otherwise the imagery sucks.

Glen is an expert at this, btw.

Things may have changed, but, for lack of a better term, "survey law" had not caught up with the capability of UAS to provide precise imagery. This was a California firm and a Washington State firm so it may not apply in your case.

PM me and I'll provide contacts with folks in the industry who could help with your learning curve. I no longer provide aerial UAS services, I just make'em!
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Last edited by Seahawk; 05-20-2018 at 08:20 AM..
Old 05-20-2018, 08:15 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #52 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GH85Carrera View Post
We do that with manned aircraft. The drone are great for very small areas. Once it gets to be over a square mile most drones become more work than you will want to mess with. Pix4D and Skyline are the packages we use the most. Expensive software. It will depend on what your final product to sell is going to be.
My final product will be a 2D plot with elevations and contours plotted on it for customers to develop land for a subdivision or commercial property or even to build a home on 40 acres like above. I had to topo that property on foot and it sucked, that is what prompted me to look into drone surveying.
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:16 AM
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One last thing Jim. There are online firms out there that provide the post mission processing of your imagery for a very reasonable cost - storage as well.

I shipped files to India because of the price point on certain jobs, other to Minnesota. The industry has really specialized into experts in certain specific tasks.
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Last edited by Seahawk; 05-20-2018 at 08:26 AM..
Old 05-20-2018, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jims5543 View Post
Yup when you see a drone overhead they are looking in your windows. LOL!

Pics from mine and its maiden voyage. I think I was about 300 feet up here. There is no zoom function on the camera so I cannot look in your windows. If I fly lower than 100 feet I may be able to see you in your yard.



This is what 100 feet up looks like.


This one was over a customers 40 acre property the cleared square is where he is building his home.



I purchased this drone for Surveying, I am shopping now for mapping software so I can use it for aerial land surveying. Software ranges from $1500-$7000 I am trying to find something I feel will work best for me. In this instance I could lay down targets, put XYZ values on them then photograph the property from various angles and heights, then overlay the pictures into the mapping program.

It will grind the numbers and create a to scale 3d map of the land saving me 30 hours of field time, it will pay for itself on my first job using it.

I have my hobby license and am working on my commercial one.

As a 43 year veteran of flying fixed wing model aircraft AND a Professional Land Surveyor:

1) You are using your "Drone" in the furtherance of your business. You should be licensed with the FAA as a commercial operator before using it in your business.

2) Good luck with your mapping software creating a usable TIN on that project without a LOT of manual intervention. You are mapping the top of the dirt in some spots, the top of the tall vegetation in others, the tops of trash and the tops of the trees in other spots. Looks to be once an open cultivated field. Now you've got vegetation growing in the bottom of the cultivated rows that will be mapped taller than the actual ground adjacent to them. How do you reckon that will work out? The drainage ditch with a lot of brush growing in it....good luck with that! There's a reason this technology works so well in the desert Southwest where nothing is growing amongst the sand and rock....

3) Better up your E&O Policy significantly.

4) One man with a robotic total station or GPS and an ATV could have absolutely smoked that site and you would sleep much better at night.

Sincerely,
Your Brother in the Profession!

Last edited by SCadaddle; 05-20-2018 at 08:59 AM..
Old 05-20-2018, 08:41 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #55 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCadaddle View Post
As a 43 year veteran of flying fixed wing model aircraft AND a Professional Land Surveyor:

1) You are using your "Drone" in the furtherance of your business. You should be licensed with the FAA as a commercial operator before using it in your business.

2) Good luck with your mapping software creating a usable TIN on that project without a LOT of manual intervention. You are mapping the top of the dirt in some spots, the top of the tall vegetation in others, the tops of trash and the tops of the trees in other spots. Looks to be once an open cultivated field. Now you've got vegetation growing in the bottom of the cultivated rows that will be mapped taller than the actual ground adjacent to them. How do you reckon that will work out? The drainage ditch with a lot of brush growing in it....good luck with that! There's a reason this technology works so well in the desert Southwest where nothing is growing amongst the sand and rock....

3) Better up your E&O Policy significantly.

4) One man with a robotic total station or GPS and an ATV could have absolutely smoked that site and you would sleep much better at night.

Sincerely,
Your Brother in the Profession!

I am currently studying, when I have time, for the commercial drone pilot exam. Until then I am using just as a hobby and not using any of the photos for financial gain.


Crazy, 30 years ago a company I worked for leaned heavily on aerial photogrammetry I was just a drafter at the time but I remember plotting our test cross sections over the maps created by the mapping company.

I had assumed 30 years later the technology had evolved to the point where it was more accurate now.

I mentioned this to Seahawk in a PM, I met a guy who owned a UAS company at a CE class last year and I asked him a million questions during our lunch break. Then went to my equipment supplier and asked 100's more. The equipment supplier was trying to sell me 7K in software with training and I hesitated and did some research. Seahawk suggested some sub-contract post processing which I think may be more cost effective for a company my size. I am really small and most of the time my contracts for jobs like this would be for residential building permits. I really am not involved in commercial or construction much anymore. By choice due to risk vs. pay. I think most land surveyors are idiots (especially around here) and get underbid on larger projects. I am not taking a risk unless the payout is worth it.

I will stick with lot and block mortgage work and builder work and leave the high risk work to the price undercutting idiots. My clients know I am expensive when jobs become risky and use crappy "surveyors" who will get them their piece of paper that they need for permitting or closing or whatever they need. Fine by me. Let them take the liability for next to nothing.

Thanks for the suggestions I already have GPS but no robotics, I am a really small company so many times it is like taking a bazooka rabbit hunting.
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Old 05-20-2018, 12:02 PM
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Peeping Tom laws apply to creeps with cameras regardless of what they are mounted to.

The beauty of drone sniping is that a .177 cal pellet can do significant damage if you can hit it. I call that sport. Better yet, take a video of it hovering over your yard, follow it to its source and file a peeping Tom complaint. The FAA may not do anything, but local police typically take a dim view of creepy people videoing others without their consent.
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Old 05-20-2018, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mreid View Post
Peeping Tom laws apply to creeps with cameras regardless of what they are mounted to.

The beauty of drone sniping is that a .177 cal pellet can do significant damage if you can hit it. I call that sport. Better yet, take a video of it hovering over your yard, follow it to its source and file a peeping Tom complaint. The FAA may not do anything, but local police typically take a dim view of creepy people videoing others without their consent.
You don't know whether or not a flying drone is recording. Plenty of people fly without recording.

Also, it's called a federal crime to shoot down a drone, not a sport, Sport.
Have fun in the pokey.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2016/04/13/faa-confirms-shooting-drone-federal-crime-so-when-will-us-prosecute/#7ba252452a25

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Old 05-20-2018, 03:22 PM
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