None of this is new. In fact I would argue that we overall live in a kinder, gentler world today than ever. A generation ago it was easier to get guns, bullying was likely more vicious, kids played games with guns, and mental illness was still around. But for some reason today when people snap, they feel the need to harm others. The real question that we need to answer is why? Entitlement mentality leading to people feeling as if they are being shorted by society? Overuse of prescription drugs to treat mental health issues? Social media and news coverage making everyone seek their 15 minutes of fame/notoriety? Glorification of violence in movies, TV, and games?

I know everyone has their bias in this argument, and this is always a convenient excuse to argue why they are right. I am very pro-guns and 2nd amendment but would agree with Denis that there need to be additional checks put in place to avoid selling guns to the mentally ill. But anyone who argues that guns are the issue, and the only issue, is a fool who is arguing with their emotions and not their brain. Gun violence is a symptom, not a cause. Gun control has led to a huge spike in knife violence in London, with their murder rate surpassing NYC earlier this year. A man with a truck killed 86 in Paris and wounded nearly 500 more. There will always be weapons available, the better question is why people are using them in this manner.

I'm just waiting for the investigation to show that "against doctor's recommendations" he "recently decided to stop taking" his LexaproPaxilZoloftProzac.

Also interested to see what his favorite FPS game was.

I stand corrected then. The tougher laws you spoke of, outlined above, are rational, enforceable, and have my support. I would add another - crime committed with a gun would result in a mandatory prison sentence of 20-30 years guaranteed. That would not address crazy people who commit mass murder, but would put a huge dent into the everyday gun crimes by known felons/repeat criminals. Make room for them and let casual drug offenders out of lock down.

The rest, as you said, we will have to agree to disagree. Thanks for your thoughtful response Dennis.

I think on a car forum we could probably agree that it should be more difficult to get a driver's license.

And maybe you should have to get a license to buy a gun. And it should be about as hard as getting a driver's license. I'd do it.

It will have a pretty minimal impact on the shootings though.

The laws are already in place to do all that has been suggested in this thread. A reasonable person would not expect additional ineffective laws being passed to have a positive impact.

In this case, our most reasonable person is keyboard player with a weakness for old motorbikes, WTF?

Here is an interesting read.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/school-shootings-are-still-rare-and-that-makes-them-hard-to-stop/
https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-conte...o&w=2048&ssl=1

That and everyone gets a trophy and they have no idea how to deal with rejection or that hard work can get you somwhere in life. Nope, y'all are all wonderful and deserve the world without working for it and everyone should love you.

In this kids case he was bullied form the teacher/coach and I am sure a quick talk with the super would have taken care of a lot since in today's world the kids are always right.

In the last decade or more, the sitcoms all are about how one person is constantly berating another kid or others in general. I guess as far back as "Married...with Children". Kids expect to behave that way now because that is what they see. Same with language and respect.

I should add, our son was kicked off the bus for punching a bully in the nose when that bully spit on our son's friend. I told him I would stand behind him 100% every time and if I had to drive him to and from school I would. Our daughter tied into a couple students for picking on a girl that is "heavy set". Told her the same as I told our son.

Neither kid goes to that public school any longer though and I know that the culture on those public schools is caustic. To paraphrase Weird Al, if you aint sports you aint nothin.

The reports of bullying from the football coaches are troubling - and likely not uncommon. My own son went through this, sadly, playing baseball from 12U and into high school. Once the coaches give the go ahead on that behavior, through their own actions, then it has the potential to become open season on the kid by the rest of the team. Sports are important in H.S., especially TX football, so if there is bullying on the field I would be certain it also happened off the field. Add in a kid who is socially awkward or shy and it can snowball. We had legitimate concerns and my son was targeted by one coach in particular. This person took the bullying into the classroom - he also taught AP history and openly mocked our son. We were left with no alternative but to transfer to another school. The coach/teacher was disciplined by the school district but continues to coach and teach. Our son graduated from new school with honors and played varsity baseball.

Curious to hear more about how the boy got access to the guns. IMO the father should be facing charges if it's demonstrated the firearms were not manged responsibly.

I've had the same attitude with my kids. Never throw the first punch, but you better be throwing the last. Standing up for someone who can't stand up for themselves is the same deal. Also, if I ever catch you bullying someone, the school will be the least of your worries. No issues thus far, fortunately.

That really sucks about your situation, though it sounds like you made 100% the right decision. I also agree that if the dad did not properly secure the guns then he should face criminal charges. Responsible gun ownership includes locking up your guns.

Conversely, he may have had them recommended but refused or just started and was wacked out by a medication's side effects.

Are your kids in Private school?

If not then you have no clue.


My old sons private middle school had all kinds of kids in it, from a girl with epilepsy to another girl that was mildly retarded. Both were treated with compassion, kindness and as equals. It would bring a tear to your eye to see your kid and all the other students look past these kids problems and treat them a peers. I was never more proud of my son as I was to see him being so kind to these kids. I chaperoned a lot of field trips back then and saw a lot.

My younger son is in a class of 8-10 kids with a teacher and assistant in the class at all times. There is no bullying at all, they are all friends I have never seen anything remotely close to bullying.

Furthermore past classmates from his first school are all his friends today. The parents are fantastic people and all very polite and nice. His best friend these last couple of years is the son of a Judge. We just visited the parents home and are inviting them here, although I have to admit, I am not wealthy like these people are, so I am pretty intimidated when it comes to showing I live in a blue collar neighborhood in a very small home. We keep our lives simple to afford to be able to send our kids to private schools.

That means no Mcmansions in the cool subdivisions, and driving older used cars. I even had to stop racing cars because it was costing too much, I sold the wild fast cars off (Porsche and RX7) so money would be available for private school.

I honestly do not think I would be looked down on, thankfully my sons and their kindness / good hearts precedes us so other families like for their kids to associate with ours.

The director of my younger sons 1st private school has him over her house all the time and we do the same with her son. Her kids are gifted smart and we like that our son associates with them and the same with them and our son they love how sweet he is.

I can say in the 3 schools I have experienced, there has been almost zero bullying.

My older son saw some in his middle school a girl was stirring up trouble and creating teen drama. She was expelled from the school. They do not put up with that crap at all.

The parents tried to sue the school, I was good friend with the owner and we were both going through lawsuits at the same time, we were friends through suffering.

The parents lost and the problem was eliminated.

You will never see that in public School

BTW the girl kicked out came from public school, the owner was hesitant to take her on because of that and was right.

She was also hesitant to take in our son since we were moving him from public school as well years before that girl. The owner admitted that to us and expressed how happy she was that she admitted him into the school since he was such a good fit.

There are very large private schools there is one not too far from us we would never send our kids to that school too big and too much like a public school. We prefer really small private schools and we vet them thoroughly before using them.

The Pine School | Private, Independent School | Martin, Palm Beach, St. Lucie County | Elementary, Middle, High, Upper School | Hobe Sound, Florida 33455

FWIW, my kids attend a private Catholic school and yes, there is bullying. I attended the same school and yes there was bullying.
The problem here IMO is that democrats will cry for more gun regulation. Republicans will say we need to look more into mental health and NEITHER will do a damn thing about securing our schools so that people simply can't enter with a weapon. Neither party is doing what any sensible person would consider a good first step which is taking measures to prevent people from entering a school with a gun.

Jims I grew up in private schools.

A good friend of my sons transferred to private school this year and has been having a miserable time because it is so famously cliquish and catty.

For those that are bullied it is downright painful to hear adults claim it doesn't exist in THEIR school. It tells those kids they are not only deserving of the bullying but they are also invisible to adults.

Kids (and adults) bully. No matter the school.

My kids go to a private Catholic school. My son just "graduated" from 8th grade, his class started out with 75 kids in kindergarten and graduated about 60 kids last night. Number one reason for kids leaving was bullying. Not all 15, and some may not have been justified, but yes it happens everywhere. The parents who deny it are likely part of the problem, that's typically the case at my kids' school.

the great state of new jerseys response:

Here are the bills scheduled to be considered yet again:

S102 (Magazine Ban / Gun Ban) Criminalizes possession of magazines that can hold more than ten rounds of ammunition. Turns 1 million law-abiding citizens into criminals with the stroke of a pen. No grandfathering of existing magazines (though the Assembly amendment providing for permanent blocking of non-compliant magazines has now been adopted in the Senate version). Will be ignored by criminals and madmen. Makes no one safer. Interferes with ability of law-abiding citizens to defend themselves.

S2259 (No-Notice Suspension of Gun Rights) Unconstitutional suspension of Second Amendment rights and seizure of firearms with no due process in advance, based on unchallenged allegations. Fails to penalize those who abuse the process and fabricate allegations. Creates a slow, cumbersome run-into-court process not suitable for true emergencies, and potentially interferes with the currently-existing process to deal with true emergencies, which requires no court intervention and has already been established as constitutional.

S160 (Allows Suspension of Gun Rights by Unaccountable “Health Professionals”). Authorizes firearms seizure and suspension of Second Amendment rights when mental health “professionals” think someone poses risk. Allows marriage counselors, social workers and nurses to cause suspension of rights. Allows forfeiture of firearms without compensation to owner. Creates a slow, cumbersome, run-into-court process not suitable for true emergencies, and potentially interferes with the currently-existing process to deal with true emergencies, which requires no court intervention and has already been established as constitutional.

S2376 (Kills Self-Defense) – Cements NJ’s unconstitutional “justifiable need” carry permit standard into statute to prevent most law-abiding citizens from ever exercising the right to self-defense with a firearm outside the home. No one would be eligible for a NJ carry permit unless they had previously been attacked or received specific verifiable threats.

S2245 (Bans Ammunition That is Already Federally Banned). Bans ammunition that is already banned under federal law. Completely redundant with pre-existing law, makes no one safer, criminals will ignore, changes nothing -- a complete waste of legislative resources. Squanders an opportunity to severely punish the criminal misuse of ALL ammunition, not just one class of ammunition.

S2374 (Background Checks on Sales That Already Require Background Checks) Mandates background checks on private sales of firearms that already require background checks under state law. Redundant with existing law, makes no one safer, criminals will ignore, changes nothing – a complete waste of legislative resources.

S2465 (Criminalizes purchase of components to manufacture unserialized firearms) Note: This legislation has not yet been heard in Assembly committee.

This one throws a wrench in their playbook because no AR platform rifle and both weapons he had were illegal for him to have in his possession.

There is a well known clays/bird preserve facility just across the bridge in Pennsville, NJ. They offer some neat upland hunting packages and put their birds out all year (ie not just planted when you show up) for a more realistic hunt.

But for NJ reputation for heinous treatment of honest people transporting guns into the state I would probably spend around a thousand dollars with this place this fall/winter. But because NJ insists on being an unfriendly state I will be driving past it on my way to PA several times to get my bird fix this coming year.

These policies have a very real economic impact.

I said after the shooting in Florida that the weapon wasn't the problem. the ability to get that weapon inside the school is the problem. People focusing on what weapon they use aren't focusing on the right thing. Better school security (not saying you have to make it a prison environment) and doing a better job of identifying kids who might be at risk of doing something like this will net better results and save more kids ultimately.