Calling front splitter experts

[kyngfish]

So I recently got my PhD in Mig welder. And I’ve been making all kinds of nonsense. I love it. Makes you feel like a combination Thor and Mad Max. Anyway I recently put the front chin spoiler on my G Body and it’s. Fine. But at speed my front still feels slightly light. Part of it is my front toe - but it still doesn’t feel planted like my old AMG. Has anyone here made their own front splitter for a g body? Any literature I can read?

[KOH]

Check out "The official modified bumpers thread," specifically posts 279-282. Jaskas made a splitter using plywood and a carbon foil wrap. It looks good, and may give you some ideas.

The official modified bumpers thread!!!

[GH85Carrera]

I assume you are referring to the 86 Carrera in your signature. I have an 85 with no spoilers at all. I have been on the track at 100+ and it felt rock steady. Only at 135 was it feeling a little light. If I had a track handy to hit very high speeds or if I lived in Germany with a handy autobahn nearby I would get front and rear spoilers. Since I never get to 100 on the street, I see it as pointless.

I would first suggest you double check your corner balance, and alignment settings.

Of course if you are just looking for an excuse to make a spoiler have at it. Porsche discovered long ago that if a car gets spoiler in the rear, one is needed in the front to be balanced.

My personal opinion is that narrow body car looks wrong with a whale tail. It is just my opinion, and yours may well vary. It is your car, do as you please with it.

Keep in mind ground clearance. Getting in and out of driveways can be a real challenge in many cars with a low front spoiler. There are likely over 100 or more different variations of spoilers for the G body 911. Good luck with your project.

[faverymi]

Have you heard of rake angle on a 911?

[AG81]

Aluminum..

[winders]

Originally Posted by kyngfish

...but it still doesn’t feel planted like my old AMG.

Please note where the engines are located in the 911 versus the AMG.

[kyngfish]

Originally Posted by winders

Please note where the engines are located in the 911 versus the AMG.

Lol. There's always one of you in every thread. GTFO. That doesn't mean a 911 can't get planted homie. I had two SLKs, the 320 without the front splitter did not feel the same at speed. The supercharger made it slightly heavier, but it was still that big v6 block in the front. But - seriously, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart: thanks for the unhelpful comment.

@KOH - thanks for that thread URL!

@AG81 - what splitter is that?

@GH85 - I have new torsion bars from sway away, and it's configured in a slightly street aggressive setup. As I said, it could be my toe-out, but honestly I was just seriously underwhelmed by the difference in feel when I had no front spoiler vs having one. I'm also dealing with trying to dial out a serious loss of weight in the front when I took out the spare, and moved the battery from the nose to the smuggler's box and got a smaller battery. Between the two, I think I lost something like 50 lbs out of the already light nose.

@faverymi - I do have a 1 inch rake front to back, when I redid the suspension I set that up.

[winders]

Originally Posted by kyngfish

Lol. There's always one of you in every thread. GTFO. That doesn't mean a 911 can't get planted homie. I had two SLKs, the 320 without the front splitter did not feel the same at speed. The supercharger made it slightly heavier, but it was still that big v6 block in the front. But - seriously, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart: thanks for the unhelpful comment.

At high speed, a street 911 is never going to feel as planted as reasonably setup sporty street car with a front engine. It's the nature of the engine layout versus aero practicality on street cars. The 911 is going to generate more lift the faster you go. This is felt more at the front. Now, if you want to reduce lift at the front, you put the chin spoiler on the car. From a practical standpoint, you can't put a real splitter on a street-based 911 with near stock bodywork.

[kyngfish]

Originally Posted by winders

At high speed, a street 911 is never going to feel as planted as reasonably setup sporty street car with a front engine. It's the nature of the engine layout versus aero practicality on street cars. The 911 is going to generate more lift the faster you go. This is felt more at the front. Now, if you want to reduce lift at the front, you put the chin spoiler on the car. From a practical standpoint, you can't put a real splitter on a street-based 911 with near stock bodywork.

I don't think you read any of the discussions above.

[winders]

I did read the discussions. I know what I am talking about. I used to go stupid fast on the street in in my 911SC with a 3.2L engine. It started out with no chin spoiler and a stock deckled. To counter the light front end we lowered the car and added a chin spoiler. That helped but the best thing we did was balance the chin spoiler with a 1977 Turbo tail.

At 140 MPH it still got to light on the front end but there really wasn't much we could do in the confines of stock front bumper setup. It worked great autocrossing on fast courses where we saw 3rd gear and even on the big track where I didn't go over 120 MPH.

Regardless, I never got the front end of my 911 to feel as planted at higher speeds as my front engine RX-7. There is just too much mass at rear of the 911 to get that same feel at higher speeds.

Now, if you have the ability to do some real aero at the front, my race car has an awesome full front splitter design with diffusers that works incredibly well. So well that I had to massively increase the aero downforce at the rear AND get rid of the rear sway bar just to balance the grip generated by the the splitter setup.

[Garen]

Winders hits on it exactly... It's about balance. It's exaggerated on a race car, due to the ability to consistently hit higher speeds, and integrate real aero, but it still effects how a car behaves on the road. So, you can put a barn door on the bottom of your front bumper and it might make it more planted, but don't under-estimate the effect of dynamics on the behavior of the car. Aero is best handled as a system, not a la cart items. Just like suspension. Funny how that works...

Basically, if you make a significant change (+ or -) only on one end of the car, expect to deal with potential driving dynamic issues when the drive changes from steady-state to any sort of transition (cornering, sudden change in acceleration, steering input, etc.)

Might be preaching a bit here, for which I apologize in advance, but driver confidence is based on vehicle balance. You tip the scale too much one-way, you get a nervous car. Put a chin spoiler on, rake the car a bit, and baby-step towards a setup that feels "right".

[Sebscst]

Glad this thread just came up as I have been having the same issue. My car is far from stock it weighs in at 2080lbs with 26 gallons of fuel and 215hp at the wheels. The front gets way to “floaty” after 100mph if I’m under quarter tank of fuel and is a handfull at 130. Obviously it performs better loaded with fuel as it adds more weight as far front as it can go.But when I’m light on fuel it really disrupts the balance. It definitely needs some downforce in the front. I have been thinking of adding a front splitter and wonder if others have done it. How can you make the front of a 911 more planted. I’m aware it’s part of a “system” but what if you do have all the correct parts I.E. suspension,tires,alignment,corner balance and the car still doesn’t handle “safely” at higher speeds. I’m sure others can go faster in their stock cars and be fine but others seem to have this common problems. Can a splitter help? I’ll probably build one out of aluminum to test it out but would like to know others examples.

[Kraftwerk]

Have a splitter been thinking about finally installing it for the past decade or so. ( I move slowly) Originally made out of three pieces of aluminum, butt-riveted... bought it from a nice guy down in GA, here on the board. Recently had it welded into one piece. Looks fine on the wall where it's been chilling for a long time. Motivation for this purchase was that anything over 125 /130mph - the front end felt super-light and sketchy.All very legal :this was on the Autobahn - (long story) so it kept me under 120 for the duration of my stay there. Audi's wanted to eat my rear bumper (!) Still contemplating putting it on, but only if it results in performance enhancement not for looks.. ( but it will also look cool ) A good suspension / tune re-fresh might make it less needed.
I think Scott Winders has some good points and you should accept his information and real-world experience with good grace.

[kyngfish]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

I think Scott Winders has some good points and you should accept his information and real-world experience with good grace.

Had he lead with his third comment instead of his first, I might have. That last one was honestly helpful. But he didn't. So I didn't.

I already have the chin spoiler, and I just took a ton of weight off my front end. I'm going to fix the toe on my car, and I'm going to remove a ton of weight off the back as well, to balance it better. I didn't really ask about his personal opinion about splitters on the car. If they didn't work, people wouldn't use them, hell, even HE said he uses them on his race car. People use the chin spoiler because it's what's available. That doesn't mean it's the best option.

I just spent over 4 grand on doing a suspension refresh, doing all of the work myself. Including all height setting, balancing and alignment.

All I was asking, before I took it to the track, was if anyone had built a splitter, and if there was literature to read. Jack Olsen has aero he bolts on and off his car. It's a long-hood. Really what I'm looking to understand is if something has done something similar on the G-Body.

[Jaskas]

I did mine out of plywood, form to wished shape, paint with rattle can. Has worked great for me, tolerates abuse and speedbumps well.

[AG81]

Originally Posted by kyngfish

AG81 - what splitter is that?

^
I made a plywood templet and then cut this from some aluminum sheet myself.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Non - rocket science approach

60/40 corner balance ratio
60/40 spring rate ratio
60/40 aero downforce ratio

ABS plastic front splitter held on with ty-raps for those unplanned John Deere moments
2 different size Canard plates on the nose with louvered front fenders
Adjustable rear wing on uprights - 0 to 7 degrees AoA
Change canards and Rear AoA to adjust for high speed tracks vs technical tracks

[Kraftwerk]

kyngfish,
Cool you did all the suspension work your self that is a big job...especially the balancing and alignment & height adjustment.. this knowledge will get you closer to fixing the issue, please share the results here once you get it figured out / splitter installed etc., also check out that thread KOH recommended there are lots of custom jobs shown.
I am also curious about how Rear Diffusers come onto play, belly-plates etc.

[Mixed76]

Originally Posted by winders

I did read the discussions. I know what I am talking about. I used to go stupid fast on the street in in my 911SC with a 3.2L engine. It started out with no chin spoiler and a stock deckled. To counter the light front end we lowered the car and added a chin spoiler. That helped but the best thing we did was balance the chin spoiler with a 1977 Turbo tail.

At 140 MPH it still got to light on the front end but there really wasn't much we could do in the confines of stock front bumper setup. It worked great autocrossing on fast courses where we saw 3rd gear and even on the big track where I didn't go over 120 MPH.

Regardless, I never got the front end of my 911 to feel as planted at higher speeds as my front engine RX-7. There is just too much mass at rear of the 911 to get that same feel at higher speeds.

Now, if you have the ability to do some real aero at the front, my race car has an awesome full front splitter design with diffusers that works incredibly well. So well that I had to massively increase the aero downforce at the rear AND get rid of the rear sway bar just to balance the grip generated by the the splitter setup.

Admirably calm and informative response. Well done Winders.

Sent from my Nokia 7.1 using Tapatalk

[Mixed76]

Originally Posted by kyngfish

Had he lead with his third comment instead of his first, I might have. That last one was honestly helpful. But he didn't. So I didn't.

Grow up?

Sent from my Nokia 7.1 using Tapatalk