Adding 86+ newer ac side vents to older 77 dashboard

[jakg104]

Hi folks, I'm about to embark on installing the Classic Retrofit AC system on my 77, which has the bowtie vents. Wanted to explore the possiblity of changing out some of the dash components to be able to add the bigger 86 and onward side vents to the car.

The vents and associated dash parts aren't too expensive in the used market.

It looks to be a few parts that could potentially be swapped with the existing dash parts?

Has anyone had experience is swapping out these parts on the older dash? Is is a simple replacement or are there any gotchas? I can run a new duct to it from the new blower, etc.

Thoughts?

[jac1976]

AC?! That’s what the 993 is for!

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by jac1976

AC?! That’s what the 993 is for!

Poppycock. Any G body 911 can have great AC. My 85 Carrera will blow lots of ice cold air and keep my wife and I comfortable in the hottest weather, on long road trips or short errands.

With no hesitation I will state categorically that the AC package from Griffith's is the best project I have ever done to my 911. It makes it derivable and comfortable in 100+ degree heat in high humidity. In Savannah, GA in August my wife asked me to turn the temp UP because she was cold on a lunch time trip.

Grafting in the bigger vents is a lofty goal. Good luck with that. I just added the Griffiths side vents and those help a lot. I would love a set of the larger factory vents but I think it is a major project.

[PorterF]

FWIW, I prefer the smaller center dash vent. The later one does not direct air to the driver as well as the old style.

Agree that it's a major project involving metal work on the dashboard. It has been documented on the forum if you look for it. Haven't seen your "bolt on" approach but maybe it's possible.

The Griffith's under dash vents are an option as Glen mentioned, also from what I can tell the "clock vent" works rather well and is easily reversible. Can be installed seasonally if desired.

[GH85Carrera]

I suspect it is much like putting G50 transmission in a 915 car. It has been done, and well documented. If you don't have a 300+ HP engine it is a waste of money and time in my opinion.

If your dash is removed and you are down to the metal dash, go for it. Please document the steps and post them on Pelican.

I would love to have the larger vents, and have my sunroof disappear. I just can't see the expense of doing that as logical. Just my opinion and my money. Your opinion may well vary.

[Peter M]

I've had both. Installing the larger side vents would not be worth the effort as they are fairly limited in where you can direct the airflow.

However you are on the right path, good comfortable AC requires lots of volume of cool air, not strong jets of icy air that unfortunately many pre-90 cars upgrades end up having.

My suggestion is to buy a Behr underdash vent which is full width or cheaper, add some aftermarket vents that mount below the dash. Keuhl used to do a set that worked well. Not sure if they still do.
Vintage Air also do some that could be adapted. Both these options give you the much needed vent area required for volume without the convoluted and inefficient ducting that the standard side vent have.

I'm also getting better results with hydrocarbon refrigerant rather than R134 in these systems. Saves having to replace all the hoses for starters due to the lower pressures involved.

[jac1976]

Kind of an inside joke from this past weekend where I was the only one without AC in my ‘77 and the OP was in his 993. Carry on.

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Poppycock. Any G body 911 can have great AC. My 85 Carrera will blow lots of ice cold air and keep my wife and I comfortable in the hottest weather, on long road trips or short errands.

With no hesitation I will state categorically that the AC package from Griffith's is the best project I have ever done to my 911. It makes it derivable and comfortable in 100+ degree heat in high humidity. In Savannah, GA in August my wife asked me to turn the temp UP because she was cold on a lunch time trip.

Grafting in the bigger vents is a lofty goal. Good luck with that. I just added the Griffiths side vents and those help a lot. I would love a set of the larger factory vents but I think it is a major project.

[jakg104]

Originally Posted by jac1976

AC?! That’s what the 993 is for!

HAHA!! You were a brave man last weekend!!

[jakg104]

Originally Posted by PorterF

FWIW, I prefer the smaller center dash vent. The later one does not direct air to the driver as well as the old style.

Agree that it's a major project involving metal work on the dashboard. It has been documented on the forum if you look for it. Haven't seen your "bolt on" approach but maybe it's possible.

The Griffith's under dash vents are an option as Glen mentioned, also from what I can tell the "clock vent" works rather well and is easily reversible. Can be installed seasonally if desired.

oof, didn't realize it needs metal work. Crap. Ok. Will shelf this idea..

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I suspect it is much like putting G50 transmission in a 915 car. It has been done, and well documented. If you don't have a 300+ HP engine it is a waste of money and time in my opinion.

If your dash is removed and you are down to the metal dash, go for it. Please document the steps and post them on Pelican.

I would love to have the larger vents, and have my sunroof disappear. I just can't see the expense of doing that as logical. Just my opinion and my money. Your opinion may well vary.

Sounds good, i'll have to skip. I agree though, i think airflow is the issue with these cars. Even my 993 doesn't move enough air out of the vents.

Thanks folks!!

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by Peter M

I've had both. Installing the larger side vents would not be worth the effort as they are fairly limited in where you can direct the airflow.

However you are on the right path, good comfortable AC requires lots of volume of cool air, not strong jets of icy air that unfortunately many pre-90 cars upgrades end up having.

My suggestion is to buy a Behr underdash vent which is full width or cheaper, add some aftermarket vents that mount below the dash. Keuhl used to do a set that worked well. Not sure if they still do.
Vintage Air also do some that could be adapted. Both these options give you the much needed vent area required for volume without the convoluted and inefficient ducting that the standard side vent have.

I'm also getting better results with hydrocarbon refrigerant rather than R134 in these systems. Saves having to replace all the hoses for starters due to the lower pressures involved.

What I bolded above is a statement of opinion based on personal preference and by no means an absolute; I have one vehicle with tremendous airflow (a 1990 Ford E350 box truck) but the system, which is stock, is only capable of vent temps in the mid 50s in high 90s ambient, and another (1987 Turbo - highly modded a/c) with much less air flow volume but vent temps in the high 20s during high 90s ambient and the Turbo interior is much more comfortable to me (and it cools down much quicker following sun baking as well).

[Peter M]

I should have said " not strong narrow jets of icy air"

The point I'm trying make is that volume is important to comfort, its not all about vent temperatures. Comfort depends on being engulf in a cloud of cool air, not assaulted by 2 or 3 laser beams of icy air while the rest of your body sweats.

However I can understand mid 50's would a bit of a let down!

[Uwon]

Originally Posted by jakg104

Has anyone had experience is swapping out these parts on the older dash? Is is a simple replacement or are there any gotchas? I can run a new duct to it from the new blower, etc.

Thoughts?

I’ve done it. See post #51 in my RST thread.
Evolution of a Carrera RST

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Johan

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

What I bolded above is a statement of opinion based on personal preference and by no means an absolute; I have one vehicle with tremendous airflow (a 1990 Ford E350 box truck) but the system, which is stock, is only capable of vent temps in the mid 50s in high 90s ambient, and another (1987 Turbo - highly modded a/c) with much less air flow volume but vent temps in the high 20s during high 90s ambient and the Turbo interior is much more comfortable to me (and it cools down much quicker following sun baking as well).

My beloved 1986 El Camino is a basically stock AC system. The El Camino has a small cabin that I can easily touch the rear window while driving. The Elky has the same AC system GM put in station wagons of the era. I used to commute home in the afternoons on 100+ degree days after my Elky sat in full sun all day. It was 12 mile trip and often as I was pulling into the driveway I was almost at the point of turning up the AC as I was getting cold. 40 degree air blowing air high speed is great.

For my 85 911. I have Griffith's knee-pad vents, and his extended vent that replaces the butterfly. I can point it at me but that will freeze my leg in not much time, so I have it aimed at the center of the cabin. The two center dash vents are blowing a decent volume with the hurricane blower Griffith sells.

It still does not blow the volume of air the Elky does and it is not quite as good as the Elky AC, but dang close. The biggest advantage of larger vents is the same volume of air, and a lot less noise.

My only improvement for the Elky is my home made relay setup that turns on a large cooling fan for the condenser, only if the compressor is on, and the brakes are applied. For stop light it keeps the cold air flowing. Without the fan the AC temps creep up at a long stop light. That fan helps cool the radiator and the condenser. Win win.

Both of my cars are pitiful AC compared to my wife's 2017 Macan. It starts blowing COLD air seconds after starting and of course the cooled seats is just cheating. That thing is magic with AC but new cars are so much more advanced in every respect it is not a fair comparison.

[jakg104]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

My beloved 1986 El Camino is a basically stock AC system. The El Camino has a small cabin that I can easily touch the rear window while driving. The Elky has the same AC system GM put in station wagons of the era. I used to commute home in the afternoons on 100+ degree days after my Elky sat in full sun all day. It was 12 mile trip and often as I was pulling into the driveway I was almost at the point of turning up the AC as I was getting cold. 40 degree air blowing air high speed is great.

For my 85 911. I have Griffith's knee-pad vents, and his extended vent that replaces the butterfly. I can point it at me but that will freeze my leg in not much time, so I have it aimed at the center of the cabin. The two center dash vents are blowing a decent volume with the hurricane blower Griffith sells.

It still does not blow the volume of air the Elky does and it is not quite as good as the Elky AC, but dang close. The biggest advantage of larger vents is the same volume of air, and a lot less noise.

My only improvement for the Elky is my home made relay setup that turns on a large cooling fan for the condenser, only if the compressor is on, and the brakes are applied. For stop light it keeps the cold air flowing. Without the fan the AC temps creep up at a long stop light. That fan helps cool the radiator and the condenser. Win win.

Both of my cars are pitiful AC compared to my wife's 2017 Macan. It starts blowing COLD air seconds after starting and of course the cooled seats is just cheating. That thing is magic with AC but new cars are so much more advanced in every respect it is not a fair comparison.

Good point on the Griffith's kneepad vents, i think its what i will explore.