Adapt Motorsport Kit + 964 Manifold = 3.0L Manifold Delete

[SchnellSchweitz]

Hi folks,

I'm sure there are more than a few Bitz Racing "clean look" conversion folks who are going to be interested in this:



This is the complete Adapt Motorsport 964 manifold conversion kit for a 3.0L. I will be posting more pics later this winter as I install it.

Stay tuned!

Eric J.

[Ian Comerford]

Thank you for posting. Excuse my ignorance but could you please describe what you are trying to achieve here, is it to get a 964 induction/injection system to fit an SC engine? If so what does this result in?

[SchnellSchweitz]

Those of us that have deleted our SC 3.0L and 3.2 Jetronic systems and trimmed down our OEM air/fuel boxes, as part of one of the Bitz Racing "clean look" reconfiguration, are stuck with an old plastic intake box that is prone to vacuum leaks and doesn't easily allow for the electronic control advancements we can now take advantage of. We already have electronic fuel injection as part of the Bitz Racing system, but with a 964 manifold, we can electronically control air intake if we want and several other more modern systems. The 964 manifold is also much more advanced than the old 3.0L butterfly - with dual butterflies for better control over slow and fast driving. The Bitz Racing kit is essentially a pre-tuned Megasquirt system for 3.0L and 3.2L. I hope this helps explain a few of the major reasons why I purchased the system.

[Ian Comerford]

Thank you, that’s really useful. I guess we need to find out where Singer is hiding the stock of 964 induction systems they’ve been removed from the engines during conversion then……

[jjeffries]

Is the 964 intake manifold’s volume well matched to the 3.0? As in, the 964 motor displaces 20% more than the SC’s, so would the 964 manifold be “too big” and thus cause any tuning difficulty? Maybe more air is always good if you do a good job dialing in the fueling.

Confused in Connecticut!
John

[Trackrash]

Waiting to see pics. Maybe before and after? How would this system work on a 3,0 with hot cams?

[eastbay]

Looks cool, looking forward to your thread updates

[SchnellSchweitz]

Originally Posted by jjeffries

Is the 964 intake manifold’s volume well matched to the 3.0? As in, the 964 motor displaces 20% more than the SC’s, so would the 964 manifold be “too big” and thus cause any tuning difficulty? Maybe more air is always good if you do a good job dialing in the fueling.

Confused in Connecticut!
John

I believe Megasquirt tuning will allow me to adjust the 964 intake to a perfect tune. Keep in mind, I will now have two butterflies to work with. One really small one and one big one. I probably won't be able to take advantage of the fully open big butterfly intake. But I can use at least 80%. We shall see how it all works. My hunch is I will run into issues, but that's what makes it fun. I do know I have to reroute the manifold control rod system under the 964 manifold and then up the front, but I will come up with something safe and share it here. It's all part of the challenge.

[Walt Fricke]

I'm interested. I have an '82 SC I race. I'd like to race in the class (actually, an offshoot of a class) the Euro SCs of that era race in. They have higher compression (9.8 vs 9.3), and a larger intake port. The trick here is to figure out how a US SC, with only bolt on induction changes (no displacement increase, or cams, or different pistons), can be made to have the HP/torque to compete. It is generally believed that just carbs won't do it. Can this increase volumetric efficiency enough that, combined with more efficient and consistent fuel injection than the CIS, make up the difference?

[winders]

Walt, can you run ITBs? Or, must you run a single throttle body EFI setup?

[targa72e]

Only the early aluminum runner 3.6 induction systems have a double butterfly throttle. This is generally considered not as good as the later single throttle and plastic runners.
The main advantage of the 3.6 manifold is resonance tuning. There is a large valve between the two manifold sides that can be opened or closed at different RPM (around 5500RPM on 964) to change intake resonance volume and increase volumetric efficiency for more power.
The later 993 3.6 got Varioram intake that took this to the next level by having two different length runners in one manifold. The switching valve changed the runner length being used at different RPM.
For racing classes where the engine internals have to remain stock the ability to tune the intake helps maximize what power you can get from the engine. I think the hot setup to get the most out of these stock engines is ITB throttles with a resonance intake mounted over top.


john

[Walt Fricke]

Scott - under current rules (basically the fPCA Stock rules, but a 150 lb weight break) I must run the CIS or carbs. So far no one has suggested carbs will compensate for the higher CR and large ports and runners on the late Euro SCs. An intake only performance balance involving only bolt-on parts (like the SP911 has) might be attractive. It seems desirable to try to get the 3.0-3.2 - 3.6 air cooled motors in one balanced class. The 3.2s and Euro 3.0s are, with a modest weight differential, pretty balanced in performance - a plus here, a minus there, both have a shot assuming equal driver skill, though it may vary a bit track to track. No real competition in Stock D for the US late SCs. Would call for a rule change, but that is certainly a possibility. Would EFI and a computer for injection and spark (with or without ITB) compensate for the fairly large HP difference between the US SCs and the late Euros? Some differentiation between 78-9s (big port, low compression) and the 80-83s (small intake port, middle compression).

This assumes only changes you can make without taking off and replacing anything other than the intake (maybe the distributor) - no head work, no different pistons, no cams, no lighter rotating/reciprocating engine parts, etc.

[flat6pilot]

Originally Posted by SchnellSchweitz

I believe Megasquirt tuning will allow me to adjust the 964 intake to a perfect tune. Keep in mind, I will now have two butterflies to work with. One really small one and one big one. I probably won't be able to take advantage of the fully open big butterfly intake. But I can use at least 80%. We shall see how it all works. My hunch is I will run into issues, but that's what makes it fun. I do know I have to reroute the manifold control rod system under the 964 manifold and then up the front, but I will come up with something safe and share it here. It's all part of the challenge.

Just for the record, I switched to a Carrera 3.2 manifold for my Megasquirt (Bitz) setup mainly to clean things up and get away from the plastic intake box. While I was able to tune things without issue, the only thing I noticed was a loss of some low end torque. At least on my 'butt' dyno. However, the 3.2 manifold ended up working great with my turbo setup.

I'd be interested to know if the 964 manifold causes the same loss.

[jpgroth]

Any updates on this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gretz]

I'd be interested in an update to this as well.

[sc]

I believe Rothsport still sells these 3.0 to 3.6 intake conversions.
In both single butterfly and individual throttle body versions.
Won't make a huge HP difference in a stock motor, but throttle response and reliability will definitely improve.

[rsscotty]

Originally Posted by sc

I believe Rothsport still sells these 3.0 to 3.6 intake conversions.
In both single butterfly and individual throttle body versions.
Won't make a huge HP difference in a stock motor, but throttle response and reliability will definitely improve.

What kind of stock horsepower numbers are you thinking of?

[ToySnakePMC]

Hello Pelicans. Bumping this for any potential update from the OP or others who may have info on 3.6 intake with single throttle body / EFI conversion on 3.0L’s. ...Have an alum intake with all the trimmings heading my way for future conversion with Adapt Motorsports parts & pieces. Thx! Patrick

[mikedsilva]

Keep us posted as this thread appears to have stalled...

[ToySnakePMC]

Keeping this thread going, here are a few pics of my Adapt Motorsport goodies. I’m obviously going with drive by wire EFI. I have their gas pedal kit and additional bits to round out the upcoming conversion. Everything has a nice finish, appear well made, and look nice in the box, lol! Hope it all goes well when I get to installation and tuning this Spring, Summer?









And here’s my 964 intake that’s been my winter project accompanied by several different hazy IPA’s!